ugenn Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 I'm ok with the whole command-line interface, but I dislike MAME because of the static game list which requires rebuilds to run new stuff. In general, I prefer a machine specific emulator like NRX as opposed to general purpose multi-system emulators like MAME. MAME also has the wrong design goals, IMO, as it favours emulation accuracy over performance. I mean, a game emu's meant to emulate games, not some scientific simulation for cripe's sake. NRX is a living proof of concept that you can still have a fairly good emulator at the expense of 100% accuracy. And it outperforms all the other Neo emus.
Diso Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 Why mame is better? Even though people have to keep rebuilding it, coders from around the world are putting their knowledge to compile it making better and better with each version. Pretty soon, most games will work 100% with sound and video Does Kawaks run 3d games, NO it doesn't
Mechjose Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 i like kawaks but now im starting to like mame
Weirdy Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 My only problem with MAME is the lack of external DATs. Since I don't know how to program, I have to wait for someone else to compile a copy for me to leech of off. I don't mind it much because it'll only be a matter of time before somebody gets it working. It is much easier to copy and paste the DAT files into Nebula/Kawaks but I'm not going to hate MAME just for that reason. Sure it's inconvenient, but that's it. It's only an inconveience.you act like I know about programming. Dude, if you wanna start compiling it, I can give you a guide a friend of mine gave me. If its MAME32 Plus you wanna compile, the drivers for kof 2002 and earlier are already on the source, but they're disabled, the other games you have to add yourself(which isn't hard because all of the games that came out in 2003 are decryted)
James Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 I'm ok with the whole command-line interface, but I dislike MAME because of the static game list which requires rebuilds to run new stuff. In general, I prefer a machine specific emulator like NRX as opposed to general purpose multi-system emulators like MAME. MAME also has the wrong design goals, IMO, as it favours emulation accuracy over performance. I mean, a game emu's meant to emulate games, not some scientific simulation for cripe's sake. NRX is a living proof of concept that you can still have a fairly good emulator at the expense of 100% accuracy. And it outperforms all the other Neo emus.From the mame home page http://www.mame.net/ On December 24th, 1996, Nicola Salmoria began working on his single hardware emulators (for example Multi-Pac), which he merged into one program during January 1997. He named the accomplishment by the name of Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator, or MAME for short (pronounced as the word 'maim' in English, other languages may differ). The first official release was MAME 0.1, which was released on the evening of February 5th, 1997 (23:32 +0100). Using a modular and portable driver oriented architecture with an open source philosophy, it soon grew into immense proportions. The current version supports 4752 ROM sets, 2679 unique games. Because MAME releases happen whenever they are ready, at one point the wait between new versions was almost 4 months. To help the agony of the users, a public beta system was used, with a beta release happening every 2-3 weeks on an average. However, now the beta designation has been removed in favor of a good old 0.xx version number. Also a work-in-progress -page exists, if you really want to know the latest information. Even though MAME allows people to enjoy the long-lost arcade games and even some newer ones, the main purpose of the project is to document the hardware (and software) of the arcade games. There are already many dead arcade boards, whose function has been brought to life in MAME. Being able to play the games is just a nice side-effect. The huge success of MAME would not be possible without the talent of the programmers who joined to form the MAME team. At the moment, there are about 100 people on the team, but there is a large number of contributors outside the team too. Nicola Salmoria is still the coordinator of the project.
James Posted February 11, 2004 Posted February 11, 2004 anyway check here http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m14 this might help you understand mame a bit better. M13. Why does MAME become slower all the time? Contrary to popular belief, the amount of drivers alone does not make MAME slower. The point is that the drivers are constantly improved and the improved emulation is more accurate to the actual original hardware so for MAME's purposes it's superior. Emulation accuracy trumps playability concerns in MAME. Another thing to consider is a paradigm called "moving the optimization point". MAME's "sweet spot" is currently aimed at hardware with tilemaps, sprites, more than 256 colors on screen, and at least 2 CPUs, which is a common late-80s paradigm. Real-world examples of this include the Konami Twin16 games, the Sega X and Y boards, Namco System 2, Taito Z System, etc. It means that MAME makes more advanced games run faster at the expense of simpler hardware. The simpler hardware will work out in the end anyway due to ever-faster PCs (Pac-Man is very sub-optimal now vs. e.g. 0.29 for instance, but you'd be hard pressed to find a PC less than 4-5 years old where it doesn't run 60/60). M14. Why is MAME so slow? These games ran at less than 10 MHz, and my CPU is 500 MHz! You are comparing the following objects. and In emulation world, megahertz is not analogous from your main CPU to the emulated CPU. MAME not only rigorously emulates every opcode of the emulated CPU(s), but also memory interfaces, video output and sound emulation, and all this in portable C code. See also the next question. Back M15. Is MAME a simulator or an emulator? That depends entirely on the definition of those words. In electrical engineering, the word "emulation" has traditionally been used to mean a very low-level reproduction of real life electrical signals. For example, professional microprocessor emulator software comes with a processor-shaped connection, which you can actually plug into a motherboard and run instructions with it. MAME runs simulated CPU instructions on top of simulated memory maps and I/O spaces. If simulation had to be defined, there would be three levels: Signal level (simulating in/out of actual pins of ICs). This would be necessary to allow older games like PONG into MAME, because the association of ICs on the board IS the game logic, not just following a set of instructions from a ROM. Logical level (simulating fetch/execute CPU cycles on simulated memory/io addresses). All games in MAME currently run simulations at this level. HLE level (combination of logical level with some "acceleration" added). Implemented in some other emulators, they attempt to skip certain areas of the simulation by dealing with the code in a manner alien to the original hardware. Generally complicated to implement, and very specifically tied to a particular game code.Most people make the simulation/emulation cut based on a couple of factors, including if you can support all the same games the original hardware did without game-specific hacks. MAME's CPU and sound cores pass that test literally every day as new games are added. Some other emulators that rely on a HLE approach fail it badly. A descriptive comment about the detail level of MAME's drivers is "if someone can make an FPGA version of the game, the driver documents well enough", and that's actually happened for Pacman using MAME as a reference. In other words, MAME is against simulating games, it's not against simulating components. The only way you can emulate a game is to simulate all the components. All those chips weren't really created in C.
Gryph Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 My only problem with MAME is the lack of external DATs. Since I don't know how to program, I have to wait for someone else to compile a copy for me to leech of off. I don't mind it much because it'll only be a matter of time before somebody gets it working. It is much easier to copy and paste the DAT files into Nebula/Kawaks but I'm not going to hate MAME just for that reason. Sure it's inconvenient, but that's it. It's only an inconveience.you act like I know about programming. Dude, if you wanna start compiling it, I can give you a guide a friend of mine gave me. If its MAME32 Plus you wanna compile, the drivers for kof 2002 and earlier are already on the source, but they're disabled, the other games you have to add yourself(which isn't hard because all of the games that came out in 2003 are decryted) Oh I assumed you knew some programming. Alright send me the link to this guide. I'm always eager to learn more, especially if it helps me in future emulation needs. And it'll be cool to know something about compiling so I can make fun of n00bs
Rag Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 (edited) Ahhh Mame is awesome. You can't badmouth something like that. I've never really had trouble with it running sluggish and I don't have a great computer. Its simple to use if you ask me. The command prompt of it may take a while to get used to, but if you don't like it, get a frontend or better, MAME32. My first arcade emu, I'm sticking with it Edited February 12, 2004 by Rag
Diso Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Felt like making this because I hate MAME... and I'm tired of all the MAME fanboys saying that people who hate MAME hate it because they have a sucky PC. I have an uber PC... MAME runs without trouble on my PC, but I absolutely hate it. It has no advantage that other emus don't have, and it lacks things like macros and a good interface, external rom dats, etc. People who like MAME say "It runs 4000 games, that makes it own!" But how many games do these people play on it? Probably around 100 tops, and that would be for collectors. Nobody plays those old obsolete games anyway... everyone that is serious about emulation plays things from the NES up. As far as arcades go, people play CPS-1 and 2, Neo-Geo, Zn-1 and 2, and the other major systems. That's why Mr. X and El Semi were smart enough to not include all the old pong and donkey kong games, no one plays them. Anyway, vote and be merry.I have the crappiest pc you can imagine. Yes it includes a Pentium II and I still like it because kawaks has that gay "YOU CAN"T RUN THIS WITHOUT SOUND!" feature. Sometimes, I prefer to play games without sound because its better not to hear weird music and all those grunts and missiles exploding all the time. I still love mame and stuff. Macros suck. If you use them, you probably won't get far in a tournament. Have you ever wondered why many good clans such as the -x- team use mame? Thats because they don't want some idiot that macroed every one of Ryu's combos to beat them
Rag Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 better topic, why do I suck mwahahahh I KEED I KEED
cosmic_lord Posted February 12, 2004 Author Posted February 12, 2004 I frrigin' love mame man!! I don't see what the problem is? Hell...even when I was a newbie more than a year ago I knew how to configure it well. I don't see what ppl have against mame anways, it doesn't even eat up a lot of cpu if you know what to configure your settings to *cough*d3d renderring*cough*, I even have p2p programs open and it still runs good at full screen+smoothness and no slowdown. If you don't want to configure the stuff thats on the imterface, then just use the gott damn command line. wtf is so ugly about the interface anyways? If there's one emulator I don't like its neorage. Its stupid because it can only play a hacked p1 file and kof99 and any game later can only be a bootleg(or decrypted) set. btw, that choiceIts lack of external dats makes the process of adding new games too time consumingits not hard, nor is it time consuming. It only takes me like 5mins to whip up a mame driver(unless its encrypted). Hell...if you were gonna attempt to compile mame, you coulda just asked me and I would've given you a guide on how to add decrypted drivers....same goes for fba, I compile that too I already compiled MAME32 Plus.079 to accomdate the fixes in KOF2003. Believe me, I can do it without any trouble, I actually wrote a very in depth guide on how to do so for ppl who didn't know. But, it's finally out for a decent Emulator so I deleted MAME with a hallaluah and a sigh of relief. Somebody said "what's so ugly about the interface?" I never said the interface was ugly. I said it sucked. Basically, if you want to configure controls, you have a lot of scrolling to do for one thing, whereas other emulators keep them all in one window... but in mame they are one line at a time so you could have to hold the down arrow key for like 30 seconds to get to what you want. Also, it doesn't allow macros, which are a nice thing to have now and then for moves like Somersault Justice (Charge DB, Press DF,DB,UF+K). Yes, people abuse macros, when they set the hadoken and crap like that to them, but some moves are annoying to do and those I actually see a purpose for using macros on. Well, compiling mame... takes "so little time". Writing in the extra code you need takes about 5 minutes if you do it from scratch, and then the actual compiling takes 10 or 15 minutes... and that's on my computer... (3.00 Ghz, 1024 MB RAM). Well, I can open up Nebula and add in a dat in about 30 seconds. Much time saved there. As many new dats as I add and edit, I'd be compiling mame about a dozen times a week, with all the patches etc. to be implemented. Resource wise, MAME never bothered me, except for the fact that a single save state is like 10 MB... whereas on any other emulator a save state is like 20kb or something like that. That's ridiculous... I mean, even with a huge hard drive that could cause you problems... my folder that I keep all of my emulators in is 2.82 GB as it is... I don't need 10 MB save states adding to it. MAME may have few faults, but it doesn't have any advantages. That's my point... and that's why I have no clue why people love it so much. It's not user friendly... I mean a newbie would have no clue how to compile it or whatever, and downloading a compiled version would take much more time than going to some site and copying and pasting a dat file for one of the better emulators. The interface isn't really user friendly either... newbies wouldn't know what thigns like BIOS and stuff like that meant. Actually, the only thing that MAME has that I wish the other emus did, is that it's open source. It really doesn't affect me since I don't use MAME, but I wish the good emulators were open source too. That would make it easy to run games like KOF2003 that use alternate bank switching.
vxneko Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Resource wise, MAME never bothered me, except for the fact that a single save state is like 10 MB... whereas on any other emulator a save state is like 20kb or something like that. That's ridiculous... I mean, even with a huge hard drive that could cause you problems... my folder that I keep all of my emulators in is 2.82 GB as it is... I don't need 10 MB save states adding to it.personally, i never had to use save state. i wanted mame to emulate the coin-op feel... of course, i'm not inserting quarters into the cdrom drive but... i just push the coin button if i want to continue. ugly gui, slow-as-hell, or other complaints aside... i _need_ mame to play strike force!!! and terra-cresta!!! as far as sentimentality goes, mame's got all other emulators beat. Nobody plays those old obsolete games anyway... everyone that is serious about emulation plays things from the NES upi'm one of the old farts who play those obscure games. i love butasan... and chicken shift~ even the old donkeykong games. a sucker for old, dumbass games i am. cosmic_lord, you don't speak for everyone. i may be in the minority but there are many that appreciate mame because it has games that old farts like me love to play. (i'm not trying to be offensive... i'm just saying you're wrong ) don't undermine the power of sentimentality. it ends up driving you to old, obscure games, puhahahaha~~~ anyway, this poll is FLAWED!!! there should be a "wha!?!? it doesn't suck!" option. *waves fist in the air*
Rag Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 The configuration screen is fine, you don't need to scroll that much and I'm sure there was a way to scroll faster. As for state saves... do you really need them? I don't consider those faults, I think your kinda expecting too much or being too picky about it.
Diso Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Resource wise, MAME never bothered me, except for the fact that a single save state is like 10 MB... whereas on any other emulator a save state is like 20kb or something like that. That's ridiculous... I mean, even with a huge hard drive that could cause you problems... my folder that I keep all of my emulators in is 2.82 GB as it is... I don't need 10 MB save states adding to it.personally, i never had to use save state. i wanted mame to emulate the coin-op feel... of course, i'm not inserting quarters into the cdrom drive but... i just push the coin button if i want to continue. ugly gui, slow-as-hell, or other complaints aside... i _need_ mame to play strike force!!! and terra-cresta!!! as far as sentimentality goes, mame's got all other emulators beat. Nobody plays those old obsolete games anyway... everyone that is serious about emulation plays things from the NES upi'm one of the old farts who play those obscure games. i love butasan... and chicken shift~ even the old donkeykong games. a sucker for old, dumbass games i am. cosmic_lord, you don't speak for everyone. i may be in the minority but there are many that appreciate mame because it has games that old farts like me love to play. (i'm not trying to be offensive... i'm just saying you're wrong ) don't undermine the power of sentimentality. it ends up driving you to old, obscure games, puhahahaha~~~ anyway, this poll is FLAWED!!! there should be a "wha!?!? it doesn't suck!" option. *waves fist in the air* Yes the poll is flawed. Thats just being biased against mame for not even putting a simple. I like mame so much that I could marry it. so some people can actually vote for it
Rag Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Nobody plays those old obsolete games anyway... everyone that is serious about emulation plays things from the NES up Lots of those old games are really fun. Simple games to play when you've got nothing to do. Have you ever played Bagman???
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