SNK is too lazy!!!!!

[Carnicero]

Good point. As I said earlier, I drop my case and appreciate each maker's individual style a little more. Heck, I now really like Capcom's take on the SNK characters in the CVS series. It's a drastic change, but proves that a character can exist and function just fine in any maker's series.

 

Kinda makes me hope Sammy gets a chance to redo Capcom or SNK characters with their own impressive visual style. ::drools::

[stealthcat]

Here's my opinion on the whole matter. I am for SNK over Capcom (this post might seem to go the other way) but graphics wise, SNK is too old school for my tastes these days. SVC looks like crap compared to CVS2. In the Capcom version, even if it wasn't consistent through the selection of characters, most people looked cool in the game. In the SNK version, some people looked really awesome like Dimitri and Genjuro, but a lot looked like crap, such as Akuma and Sagat who just looked plain gumpy. (Gameplay, I felt that both games screwed with the SNK style of gameplay )

 

One of the main reasons why SNK isn't as mainstream in the U.S. as Capcom is because of the out of date hardware. Those who are cult fans like us can tolerate the graphics, but most of my friends will pass by seeing me playing a KOF or SVC ROM and they always ask if I'm playing a SNES game when they see the graphics. The reason they say that is everyone is used to the CVS2 or Guilty Gear styled graphics with good translucent effects (unlike SVC's wacked out attempt).

The old school style has long been passed by and yes, graphics alone can be a deciding factor for the casual gamer.

 

It is true that SNK tries to tweak the characters more. But people usually just on graphics over the gameplay (move changes). Even if SNK sprites change more than Capcom, they are not noticed as much. Why? Because they look too similar. To the average gaming eye, if you have minor tweaks of Terry Bogard in the KOF Series, it is going to unnoticed. I really only count the Garou sprite as his real major update. However, Ryu in the SF series, I count his conversion from SF2 to the Alpha (I include the MVC w/ Alpha) and then to SF3 (I'm not counting EX cuz it's 3D). Ryu switches head band and hair colors and new art styles. This is noticed by more gamers because of the engine change! Terry only had a vastly different engine in Garou and I loved fluidity and different feel. In terms of Kyo though, he does have a lot of costume changes and vast move differences, I count 3 major tweaks for him. He has been stuck with the same graphics engine though.

 

When the grapics engines change, so does the game engine. Example, SF3 plays a lot different than SFA. Alpha, the way i describe it, is more button mashing and fast paced. SF3 is just smooth as heck (smoother than even Garou, even though Garou is considered super smooth in SNK terms). KOF and SVC though feel almost exactly the same from KOF 94 through SVC. It feels stiff and lacking the animation that SF3 and GG have. I am an SNK fan but, call me a sucker, I want more animation (KOF 2002 sucks because the extreme lack of it).

 

OK, so I've debated my points on graphics and game engine. What is left? The characters . SNK's mainstays beat Capcom anyday. People like Terry, Kyo, Iori, and K' look bad as heck and have the coolest intros, taunts, costume design

and winposes. The supporting cast can't hold its own compared to Capcom's supporting cast though. People like Maxima, Benimaru, Daimon, all the stupid stupid Kyo clones and the Ikari Warriors (don't get me wrong, I love playing Ralf and Whip) are lame in character design. Capcom's newest characters suck too (new comers in Alpha 3 and some of the SF3 cast). Yes, Ryo was a total ripoff of the original karate guy and I think the whole Dan idea is hilarious. That is not to say that Capcom doesn't ripoff SNK though. I feel that the twins in SF3 are a ripoff of Kensou.

 

In conclusion, it is happy news to hear of the SNK hardware change. It was long overdue and the change might bring SNK back into competition and out of its underdog cult statis. I hope Playmore can stop being lazy and stop trying ruin SNK's franchises (recent example, Samurai Showdown 5). Stupid Playmore punks.

[qwace]

I like them both and i say an 3 hit light punch combo is so damn harder too make in kof than in Street fighter alpha 3 where i find the rythm on the first time..good or bad? im just taking up some details.. cause it seems like you are into details here hehe.. i wish they could change ryus nose in sfa3 its so damn ugly bah!!

[stealthcat]

I like them both and i say an 3 hit light punch combo is so damn harder too make in kof than in Street fighter alpha 3 where i find the rythm on the first time..good or bad? im just taking up some details.. cause it seems like you are into details here hehe.. i wish they could change ryus nose in sfa3 its so damn ugly bah!!

I think that the KOF series is harder for beginners than SFA. Some people call the KOF engine to be more precise, I just call it out dated, feels like the old SF2 and old FF games.

[maninderb]

True that SNK has much better looking characters in their games than Capcom. SNK could beat Capcom if they only changed their Graphics engine. In fact, I can find the same old 91 engine freeware on the net. As for SVC Chaos, why did SNK give Dan a Tenchi Haoken attack? They should have been pissed and not added Dan to SVC Chaos.

[qwace]

its because of the timing in kof you can make it go fast but you know how too do it

i call it more senstive even you are doing a little smaller combo you sitll need too have very good timing cause if you make it 0,10 ms to early the combo is destroyed and yes i understand that street fighter players have problem with this cause its much more easier too find the rythm in sfa3 for example. i felt the same way once.. kof was like stonage.. but then i saw some combo videos and I was so supriced that he could kick and punch so fast but they are both good games otherwise people wouldnt play them so much as they do and I have the same fun too both of them (damn im realy out of topic isnt i hehe ? easy happen when an capcomer makes an grand assault im not interested in sprites and i think its realy cool that they still make games too their machine. look at the games from 1989 and compare it with kof2003 i say got damn! thats pretty impressive

Edited January 29, 2004 by qwace

[Lightsier]

I'm sorry, but Capcom is lazy. They're always fixing up people like Ryu and Ken, but what about other people? Like me, my favorite character in Street Fighter has always been Guile. What have they done with Guile? He had a sprite in Street Fighter 2 and they've stuck with that sprite until Street Fighter Alpha 3! Then they've stuck with that same sprite till this day! Then SNK gave him a new sprite for SvC thank goodness.

 

What SNK mostly does is include new animations. As characters are given new moves, they include new animations for an opposing character getting hit. Also, play the entire King of Fighters series and you'll notice that Robert Garcia has gone through about 3 different stances. He isn't the only person to go through such changes.

 

Another point is that SNK is WAY more creative about their gameplay! Look at a character like Kim Wu, Goenitz, or Rock Howard and tell me would Capcom ever make a character like them? Would Capcom ever make some character that engulfs his hand in flames and does some from of attack with it? Never! SNK is also always known for their impressive eye candy of supers (even though they're always nearly impossible to do except in Garou).

 

SNK has way more style in their games and with their characters. Capcom games are also character with a limited amount of moves and they all play the same. SNK games the character will have a huge list of moves and they all play drastically different! Capcom is so shallow. Ryu's specials moves are Fireball, Hurricane Kick, and Dragon punch. Terry Bogard is Power Wave (with two variations), Burn Knuckle, Rising Tackle (they keep frequen stripping him of this move), Power Dunk, Crack Shoot, and Power Charge.

 

SNK all the way.

Edited January 29, 2004 by Lightsier

[Gryph]

What have they done with Guile?  He had a sprite in Street Fighter 2 and they've stuck with that sprite until Street Fighter Alpha 3!

He was in Alpha 3?

[Lightsier]

Yeap.

 

The sprites Capcom have been using for him are from his Street Fighter Alpha 3 incaration.

 

Well, he actually only made it for the home consoles versions of PSX, Sega Saturn, and later Dreamcast. As well did Fei Long and others. He wasn't in the arcade version. Still, he was in there.

 

Pick up SFA3 for any home console and you can play with him. They also put DeeJay, T.Hawk, FeiLong, and some others in there.

[DoubleDragon]

Bottom line is is SNK (playmore whatever) has limited options to improve their titles based on the hardware they use. Having said that, I think SNK has done a good job with what they have to work with. The MVS system is about 15 years old now. Titles like SS or Garou are pretty impressive all things consider. Capcom has never limited itself to the same hardware set, having come out with games that are developed for better hardware therefore being able to improve the overall product. I think what SNK should have done about 8 years ago is develop a newer and improved cabinet and provide an add on type feature to the older cabinet owners. Obviously with backwards support for the older mvs carts. I know its easier said then done but at least an effort should have been made to keep up with the times and technology. I will say for the most part i like SNK's creativity and ability to make the most of what they have to work with. Capcom is a little derivative and somewhat boring now. They haven't even come out with a new street fighter in almost 5 years now!!!! I don't know what they are up to but this whole street fighter 2 jap import for ps2 is suppose to cut it ? All it is is a mixture of the first 5 street fighters and their respective modes and dumped all together in one game. for example, you can have street fighter guile vs super street fighter 2 turbo ken and so forth. Snk has been consistent in their development of titles for quite a long time now. I'll admit that Snk definitely has quantity in terms of fighters but capcom has quality in the few fighting titles they do have out. SNK and Capcom both have redeeming qualities and are great companies in their own right. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.

Edited January 30, 2004 by DoubleDragon

[DoubleDragon]

Hi, reading these posts made me curious about some technical emulation questions I never really had thought of before. I know this isn't really the place, but you seem to be the guys to answer them (plus at least this forum is active). I don't really know much about the technical side of emulation, bt I am curious.

 

Here is the question: Why is it that emulators like Kawaks and Nebula can only emulate cetain arcade games? I realise that there is a difference between CPS-1 CPS-2 and Neo Geo - but as I understand it people have been making games on these systems for YEARS.

 

Plus, IF Kawaks etc... CAN run SVC Chaos etc...after some tweaking, and that game came out in 2003 (I think), does that mean that modern arcade machines are still being made to support these dated systems?

 

If that is the case, does it not seem odd that we are up to trilinear gourad-shaded graphics (or whatever) on the PS2, X-BOX etc..., whereas arcade game makers are still making games for a system which (I believe) had its peak in the early 1990s?

 

What about the more fancy updated arcade machines? Are they in neo-geo format or some new system? If this new system is around and better, why are people still making games for the Neo Geo?

 

Sorry if these questions are really stoopid, but I hope someone  can answer me.

SNK still designs games for its MVS because there is a huge customer base for them, especially arcade owners. Arcade machines these days can run about at least a grand whereas for the MVS; the arcade owner can buy a MVS cart for about 3 to 400 hundred dollars. It all comes down to cost. The thing with arcade machines is they only run ONE game whereas the MVS obviously runs 4 and its able add new games as it comes out. As for emulators like kawaks and nebula (mainly kawaks) were both written specifically to emulate cps and mvs hardware. Also in my opinion, I think just because something is old doesn't mean it's not good. It's all about whether or not the games are fun. If a game is fun, it doesn't matter when it was made, its all about fun. I still play games for the nes just for that very reason. A good fun game is timeless.

[Wizard]

The MVS is suprisinly the most used Arcade unit in Brazil, Japan and Euro as to the US/Canada. If you think SNK is lazy, Capcom's been lazy for the past 6 years. Releasing 10 different versions of a game for the same console isn't going to do you any good. Althought SF3 was different, they came out with 3 different versions adding more characters. A little too late if you ask me. Also these days, you don't see the qaulity fighters they used to put out 5 to 10 years ago. Only SNK and Sammy still follow the tridition of 2D fighters and manage to put out some decent fighters, GGXX isn't the greatest, by far its pretty scrub friendly, as compared to an Capcom game where the Top Tier list is 3/4ths the roster. I say Capcom has finally given up on 2D fighters, and they leave it in Sammy's hands now.

[Lightsier]

Capcom has said their last fighter will be Street Fighter 4, which is in production now. Of course since it's Capcom it'll probably have 320x200 sprites, 3 moves per character, and new characters added who are rehases of older characters.

 

SNK uses the MVS board so their limited by that. Capcom on the other hand can do whatever it wants to, but it chooses not to do anything new. Well, there was the horrible Street Fighter EX series.

 

Hopefully with Sammy, the next SNK fighter will not only have killer music, but nice transparencies with hi-res sprites.

[Wizard]

SFEX was not made by Capcom, it was made by a different company. Capcom moved their fighters to Sammy's hands also. What I'm afride of is that Sammy will turn King of Fighters into a pure-ish anime style fighter compared to now. Where SNK likes to add so much detail.

[Gryph]

Yeap.

 

The sprites Capcom have been using for him are from his Street Fighter Alpha 3 incaration.

 

Well, he actually only made it for the home consoles versions of PSX, Sega Saturn, and later Dreamcast.  As well did Fei Long and others.  He wasn't in the arcade version.  Still, he was in there.

 

Pick up SFA3 for any home console and you can play with him.  They also put DeeJay, T.Hawk, FeiLong, and some others in there.

Ah ok. I've only played the arcade version. Time to play the console version.