Need some answers :)

[Keith]

This is not about the use of Cassini.. the use of ROMS.. or the use of anything illegal. This has been stated so many times it is getting repetitive.

 

This debate is about the legal and moral side of taking a project and hacking it to make it your own when you don't have the right. It is also about protecting the emulation scene, the developers, and our fellow sites from these types of projects.

 

Past projects have been viewed the same way. Originally GiriGiri hack was not covered by emulation sites because of legal reasons. Emurayden is not covered which is a CVGS hack. Same goes for other hacks that have come along such as ePSXiPC which was nothing more then a hacked ePSXe, and the Veritas SPU plugin which was a hack of the PSX SPU Plugin Eternal SPU. I am sure there is many more and all of these are not supported by the emulation community.

 

In the end it all comes down the integrity of the Emulation Scene and how sites want to be perceived. EmuFanatics and myself are connected with many emulation developers who I consider good friends who have supported our site and I feel supporting a hacked project is a slap in their face.

 

Also Cassini is not supported by any known developers.. which should be the thing that would concern me from a technical and development standpoint.

 

Also are we ever going to get some technical answers to what changes have been done since Snail started working on the already hacked GiriGiri? Or answers to the legal counterpoints I posted in the first post of this thread?

Edited July 15, 2004 by Keith

[mikeshoup]

This is completely ridiculous.

 

Barnito: To say that everyone has roms, everyone pirtates stuff, is wrong. You can't assume everyone has roms. I dare u to look at my hard drive. I'll even give u a complete listing of all the directories if you want. I don't have roms anymore. I have no need for them. Any roms I still have saved somewhere I either dumped myself (which is legal), or they are public domain.

 

Second, Barnito, there is something wrong with coming out and accusing everyone of being hypocrites.

 

Third, this is a lot different then having roms on your computer. This is snail modifying someone else's work, and pawning it off for his own benefit. Nothing goes back to the original developers, and snail has no license to do so.

 

Unless Sega publicly announces some how that the copyrights are dissolved, and that this emulator is now public domain (or they transfer the copyright to someone else), then this emulator is completely illegal. According to copyright laws, u can modify a copyrighted material for your own use, but distribution is illegal.

[[RR]Rommaster]

Listen... I don't have to justify myself to you are anyone else. As for the roms, you HAD them before then you are a hypocrit, you broke the law period. Don't lecture me or the rest of us. When Sega asks us to stop then we will, untill then nothing changes, other than new forums somewhere else... Thanks BTW Keith.. I do appriciate that one. Turning my own network against me....

 

Much appriciated

 

BTW it is only if you make a profit off someone elses work.... not just distruibuting it free of charge..... Also if you LOOKED at the site we DID tell the truth the whole time... everything about GIRIGIRI is there and has been there from day 1. We took no credit for their work, only ours. and yes Snail does know how to modify assembly code, it is possible. as for this arguement, we will be #1 on google for saturn emulator searches in a few weeks, and have support of sites that aren't going to be swayed by you hypocritical fuc.kers.

 

Peace Out...

Barnito

Edited July 15, 2004 by [RR]Rommaster

[Keith]

It is pretty sad that you believe I turned your own network against you. Last I checked I wasn't the one doing the illegal things that people are complaining about.

 

The more information that gets out the more people are seeing the full picture. What GameCop did, he did on his own. If GameCop and his team feel it needs to be removed then that was their decision.

 

You guys can keep doing it for as long as you want, that doesn't really matter. I wouldn't expect much support from the development and emulation site scene though. I am sure there will still be many users who will support the project because it does work very well. The original GiriGiri team did a wonderful job creating it. There is no mistake there.

 

I guess we could use your excuse.. if the Cassini team ignores the questions being asked regarding the technical side and the legal side.. then we can assume we are right.

 

Also distribution of illegal material free or for money is still against the law. Your statement is naive and pretty ignorant.

Edited July 15, 2004 by Keith

[Prican25]

Barnito

its over man. you tried to fool us into believing a legit emulator when it was nothing more then a illegal hack job that you and your butt buddy have no proof that you had the right to work on from get go.

 

you did to yourself, plain and simple

[Wizard]

Hmm.

 

We all have morals, their all just different from everyone elses.

[thanatozz]

Ok so you people are flocking around with Cassini, is that it? Some progress is finally made in emulating Saturn and people already kick it right back into the ground. You hate Sega? You hate Saturn, is that what this is about? Or are you going to wait for that useless Satourne to finally become user friendly? If you knew what was good for the Emulation scene you would just let them do their work. Are you not supporting SupraHLE? It's also a reworked version of an existing emu... noone seems to care. Then why not support this one? It is abandonware and if someone wants to use it to make saturn emulation better, let them have a go at it.

[Wizard]

Just because something is labled "Abandonware" doesn't mean it's still legal.

[Xeon]

do you even understand the whole situation? do you really think Cassini would stop developing just because emulation sites generelly do not support it? if we hate Sega and Saturn then how the hell did this emulator get a homepage on 1emu in the first place?

 

do you still have your brain left in you? seriously, just shut up. you dont know jack crap, really.

 

also abandonware is ILLEGAL you idiot.

 

(no K dash, this isnt directed to you, obviously)

Edited July 15, 2004 by Xeon

[Xeon]

also, at least SupraHLE knows its place. the SupraHLE authors are aware that its a hack. quite frankly the program isnt needed anymore since the UltraHLE source was released a long time ago.

Edited July 15, 2004 by Xeon

[refraction]

Xeon is correct Abandonware is illegal, sites like the-underdogs contact the original authors requesting permission to distribute the games for free, some say yes, some say no.

 

I remember when i use to get abandoned amiga games i emails the site author about a game he didnt have and he said "altho the game is no longer on sale the authors do not want me to distribute this game"

 

 

and thanatozz, nobody hates the saturn or the emulation, authors of emulators are very respected for their work they have put in, but the Cassini developers didnt make the emulator, at most they merely modified the exe, the emulator was created by the girigiri team so there was no real advancement in the emulation of the system, we're still at square 1.

 

There are a few saturn emulators out there in development that support quite a few games and are very highly looked upon by the emulation community because they programmed it from scratch, their own work.

 

The community is not mearly picking on someone because they feel like it.

 

If sega say everything is ok for them to go ahead with it i will support the efforts at modifying it, as they may actually have the source to work with, but until then i view this as an unauthorised illegal hack.

[Agozer]

The fact of the matter is though, that Cassini is out there no matter emulation sites not hosting it. Another hack among others, and emulation fanatics disregard the illegality of it. But that is not 1Emulation's problem.

 

I never got the chance to try it, but I'm sure it did things better than other Saturn emulators out there.

 

And yes, just because we talk about the legality of this emulator and ultimately choosing not to host it on this site, doesn't mean we hate Saturn emulation.

 

EDIT: Edited to make more sense, stupid fingers.

Edited July 15, 2004 by Agozer

[thanatozz]

Sorry if I pissed you guys of but this thread pisses me of as well. These guys are finally getting the saturn games on my pc. I just wanna see Saturn emulated, no matter how, and these guys are getting it done. Now I want this project to succeed where others have failed for 10 years. Give them a chance please, I know only good can come from it. If they already modified 40 % of the code (I see no proof they did, or didn't so I'll leave it in the middle) who says they won't eventually modify the rest as well and start it from scratch. So just give it some time, don't beat it into the ground before it has a shot.

 

Peace

[Keith]

Another question I have been meaning to ask Snail is what does he mean better in this comment to a known emulation developer Runik (Saturnin).

 

From Snail

 

Runik.

As a whiney complainer here with nothing to add to the support of the progress of this project, why do you waste peoples time posting? If you truely belive the work being done is worthless, then produce something better, or quit your bitching. We seek helpful people not those trying to thwart our efforts.

 

-Snail

He mentions producing something better.. better then GiriGiri? From what I can see that kind of comment seems a bit out of place since Snail did not produce GiriGiri.

 

Also in the history it mentions that Snail has made emulators in the past and helped make others better. I am curious what other types of projects he has worked on and if they were ever made public.

 

That brings us to my dabbling with the emu.

While I've made several emus and have vastly improved on many,

for the reasons listed above, this emu has been a bear to get any improvements working.

Apparently he is an amazing coder when it comes to assembly, but I am curious why he never started something from scratch that was legit if he has the skills?

 

Well just a few more questions to add to the others. Hopefully soon we will get some answers from Snail himself.

[Wizard]

Those who use assembly will be smite by god.

 

- Book of Coders 3:11