Response @ "Cassini Warning" & False Claims

[Alpha]

The following is from the Cassini Team:

--------------------------------------------------------

We have been notifyed that an emulation website has issued a warning to other emulation websites about Cassini of it's "legal" stand in the emulation scene. First of all THIS IS a new project. The reason is because it is the first emulator to be released for the sega saturn that is open source. Now you may be asking, "So what's your point, it's just a modified giri-giri." True, but the code has been 40% rewritten and will increase substantially even more in following releases.

 

As for the email that was sent to Sega. Snail (Programmar of Cassini) has told us, "It was actually sent to Sega Corp, which is international, and they sent it to Sega of America, who issued the vague statement, which is why I took it upon myself to make the needed legal changes to remove any doubt." We still do not understand why the email said it was from technical support, but it was never sent to the technical support when they sent the email and it most likely FORWARDED to them.

 

It also seems that many people have NOT READ the legal

page on the Cassini website which states the following.

http://barnitos.net/cassini/[/url]]1. You may not sell or in any way finacially profit from this project.

 

2. GiriGiri is no longer supported by Sega. It is considered "Abandonware". While Sega may no longer exist as it has been bought out by Sammy, and they did not renew their copyrights, and the laws are those of Japan, it is still unclear as to the actual legal condtions of GiriGiri. As such, to avoid potential legal issues, I have taken the project down a differnet path. Having changed over 40% of the code and at least 3 major features, this project is now known as "Cassini". Cassini is an exploritory probe of Saturn From here on the people working on this project will be referred to as: "Team Cassini"

 

3. You can not distribute any games, or bios with this emulator.

 

4. You must own a Sega Saturn to legally posses a Saturn BIOS. We do NOT distribute BIOSes UNDER ANY CONDITION, so please don't ask.....

 

5. At this time, all rights to this project are held by Team Cassini. However, as many people contributed to get it this far, and as much more help will be needed, anyone may contribute.

We respect the emulation site who issued the warning since they care about the emulation scene, but if you want the real facts on this issue, it is right above this sentence. Soon this emulator will be ported to the XBOX as well. Currently it's in early development, since this emulator is open source! So for the other emulation sites viewing this, please take it upon your self and realize this emulator is legit and is no longer GiriGiri.

 

If people just read the included info, the legal statement, and didn't just ignore it all, they would already know what they need, in that this is not a part of Sega now, and has been given legal permission for ditribution under the stated terms.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

- The Cassini Team

[Weirdy]

ok, posted it at Romshare since I am accusing Squaresoft of being the idiot to tell emulation sites about all that legal crap

[Snail]

Pertaining to bad news and bias getting spread at some news sites:

- to Keith at EmuFanatics

 

You are supposed to be running a news site and letting users decide, not imposing your views and spreading negativity.

 

You are right, even though Sega hasn't renewed, the rights will hold, and is where things were somewhat unclear... the "legal" address, has produced no responce, email has had questionable responces at best and if Sega really wanted to protest, I gave them the chance.

 

As to you viewing it as just another hack, well, that is your take and choice, pitty, but what can one do? It is true this is not an original project, and I have never claimed such. But you keep ignoring the changes that have taken place. You're refusing to acknowledge the legality, not Sega. If Sega has a problem, they would say so, and have to prove Cassini is not legal.

 

The site you are linking people to with Runik doing nothing but bashing...

Runik is talking about the Saturnin, which is part emu and part simulator and not very compatible. Yes, it is original code, but it doesn't come close to this in funtionality.

But that is not the point of the post.

If your going to talk about Cassini being legal and try to convince other sites not to host it, try another way, but don't send people off to other sites to debate over which method is better, as it has nothing to do with the post subject of legality.

 

I know you say your not trying to offend the Cassini Team, but I have put a lot of time and hard work into this emulator. I did not just slap it together in 2 seconds and it really hurts the team when your trying to tell everyone to stay away from the project.

Edited July 13, 2004 by Snail

[gavin19]

I know little of the legalities of this or any other emulator, however what I have observed is the almost universal praise for this 'new' version of what was giri giri. I have perused many emu/rom sites where the news of this development has spread and it has only garnered a positive response from those that have heard of it.

This project should be supported by the whole emulation community, rather than attacked by people who do not hold, or wish to hold, the facts about it.

[Gryph]

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

- Albert Einstein

Just kidding, ofcourse. No one opposing this has a mediocre mind, in fact they have pretty decent arguements.

Edited July 13, 2004 by GryphonKlaw

[Agozer]

I sound like a broken record, but who wouldn't have seen this coming a mile away?

[iq_132]

http://www.emufanatics.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1294

[Wizard]

Thats interesting...

[Jiggs]

Why does anyone even care about the legalities? I mean, most of us aren't downloading PD/games we already own exclusively. I understand the need to cover one's ass, but why act like you're above "that childish illegal stuff" when basically nobody downloads only the games they can legally have back-ups of?

 

That's why I like the movie piracy scene: Nobody pretends to be totally legitimate.

[Weirdy]

if nintendo emulators are illegal, why are sites still saying where to get em?

[Alpha]

Geezus, I had no idea this would escalate to something like this, nor was I ever notified of any of this new information of tutorial being pulled from another site and no crediting. 1Emulation DOES NOT support illegal emulators. It also seems that the LEGAL page for the Cassini site has been updated by Barnito. It looks like I need to get in contact with them again. Again, 1Emulation will NOT support an illegal emulator. We will continue to support this project until further notice so we can get this cleared up.

[Jiggs]

It's not like you're all going to prison for several years because a few guys got together and decided they're going to rework an emulator for a rare console that most people don't even remember. So, why worry about it?

 

Besides, Weird brought up a good point. Isn't GBA emulation illegal, because Nintendo patented it? Could someone please tell me why that is ok, but this isn't? Also, isn't the BIOs you have to download to get ePSXe to work illegal as well? Why hasn't a shitstorm of paranoia been kicked up over it? Sony is a much bigger company than Sega ever thought of being.

Edited July 13, 2004 by Jiggs

[Agozer]

Besides, Weird brought up a good point. Isn't GBA emulation illegal, because Nintendo patented it? Could someone please tell me why that is ok, but this isn't?

Jiggs made an excellent question above...and also makes a valid point. We've discussed about this before, but it seems everything comes back to this whenever a new ground-breaking emulator is released.

 

Emulators themselves aren't illegal. With rom images, there is no grey area or the so-called 24-hour rule. BIOSes and software are copyrights of their respective owners and can only be used without payment if the developer has released it to the public.

 

It is stated in many laws that a consumer can make a backups of the software he/she owns in case of data loss or some other property damage. Then again, Nintendo desn't approve this either.

 

Nintendo is known to be the most paranoid and merciless among all software/hardware companies when it comes to piracy of their products whether they be chipped consoles to bootlegs to dumped games that float in the Internet.

 

I really don't see what the fuzz is about. I can fairly say that 99% of the people involved in emulation in some way have backups or dumps that are not from their own collections. Emulator authors detach themselves from any responsibility by (by making a certain game emulated after some years have passed since the original release) and not giving links to BIOSes (if the emulator use such a program) or the rom image dumps. I think that this is a good thing.

 

People who give statements like "All rom links/BIOS links will be deleted" are the same as others; they do have their illegal stuff, but want nothing to do with the legal aspects of it; they just get rid of any responsibility on their part.

 

What next? Companies should ban CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R and DVD-RW because they promote piracy? Give me a break.

 

The Sega Saturn has been long dead, but the copyrights still stand. The consoles themselves are scarce, so people can't get a hold of them so easily anymore. Emulation fixed this. If people so badly want the Saturn stuff, they go out there and search for it. No bitching will make it any more legal or illegal than it *supposedly* already is.

 

So, let's stop the bitching already. Emulate things if you want to or don't do so; it's your choice anyway.

 

EDIT: Jiggs is right again by saying that emulation is being hypocritical. Damn right it is.

Edited July 13, 2004 by Agozer

[Wizard]

I was talking to Jiggs before on AIM. I said, now if I can remember correctly before I closed the window.

 

crap, I really hope this is what I what I said.

 

"I really think that emulation is being hyprocrital"

 

or something like that, man, I wish I saved it. And I mean it to a term of something...something....something...I'm screwed aren't I?

[Jiggs]

I just noticed that Keith is talking about the moral issue of "stealing Sega's work on girigiri" or something equally retarded. Come on. You're aiding the playing of pirated games by running an emulators site, and you're trying to discuss morals?

 

That sounds like a pot dealer who is advising against the use of certain pipes and bongs, based on "moral grounds." I've pretty much lost the ability to take all the participants in this debate seriously (Not that I did anyway).

Edited July 14, 2004 by Jiggs