SNK Playmore To Focus On Wii

[Daeval]

Sounds like their only issue with the 360 is they are to lazy to up the resolution to 720p 

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I have a feeling the 2D thing is probably an issue there as well. Maybe not as big an issue as with Sony, but it's probably still a pain.

[Thraxen]

Sounds like their only issue with the 360 is they are to lazy to up the resolution to 720p 

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I have a feeling the 2D thing is probably an issue there as well. Maybe not as big an issue as with Sony, but it's probably still a pain.

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Maybe, but the Live Arcade has a bunch of 2D games. I really don't think MS has a problem with 2D, but they insist on 720p. SNK is just too lazy IMO.

[Wizard]

Live Arcade cannot support SNK games because they cannot hold all the game into memory (seriously, games with like 100-150 MB of stuff). NGBC is still on track for 360 in Japan, just delayed indefinately for some reason.

[garyoak99]

Very cool indeed. The Wii keeps getting more and more attractive. I've always appreciated the art detail that goes in 2D games like Metal Slug which could never be done in 3D (atleast not yet).

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I agree completely. I can't wait to see the screenshots of games like King of Fighters XI on the Wii.

[Thraxen]

Live Arcade cannot support SNK games because they cannot hold all the game into memory (seriously, games with like 100-150 MB of stuff). NGBC is still on track for 360 in Japan, just delayed indefinately for some reason.

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I didn't mean to imply that they should be Live Arcade games, I just used the Live Arcade games as an example that I don't think MS has any bias against 2D games. But they do insist on 720p... even all the Live Arcade games are 720p.

 

So it seems to me that the blame for the games not coming to the 360 lies completely on SNK and their laziness. Both them and Capcom love to recycle all their old artwork and make "new" games. Now here we have SNK basically saying, "Meh... we don't feel like making our games 720p, so we'll just release them only for the Wii". Works out for the Wii, but screws all their fans that own 360s.

 

At least Capcom isn't quite as lazy. At least they are going to be releasing SFII as a Live Arcade game with 720p.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Thraxen

[Daeval]

Live Arcade cannot support SNK games because they cannot hold all the game into memory (seriously, games with like 100-150 MB of stuff). NGBC is still on track for 360 in Japan, just delayed indefinately for some reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't mean to imply that they should be Live Arcade games, I just used the Live Arcade games as an example that I don't think MS has any bias against 2D games. But they do insist on 720p... even all the Live Arcade games are 720p.

 

So it seems to me that the blame for the games not coming to the 360 lies completely on SNK and their laziness. Both them and Capcom love to recycle all their old artwork and make "new" games. Now here we have SNK basically saying, "Meh... we don't feel like making our games 720p, so we'll just release them only for the Wii". Works out for the Wii, but screws all their fans that own 360s.

 

At least Capcom isn't quite as lazy. At least they are going to be releasing SFII as a Live Arcade game with 720p.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. First off, the graphical quality standards (which include the difference between 2d and 3d) for the 360 are almost definately different for Live Arcade games vs. retail store games. It's probably harder to pass a 2D game as a retail release, even if it's 720p.

 

Secondly, even if 720p is the only thing holding them back, I'd hardly call it "laziness" on SNK's part. Nevermind that it's MS that demands 720p, converting or completely redoing graphics, especially 2D sprites, for 720p requires a lot of labor that isn't free. SNK, or any company, has to decide which titles on what platforms to allocate their limited resources to. If it would take just 2 developers to port assets to 720p, SNK has to decide whether or not it's worth taking those 2 developers off of a game that's nearing completion for release on another system, or budgetting another 2 employees. What you're calling "laziness" was probably pretty well thought out. They know more about their profit potential and their system-specific demographics than we do.

[Thraxen]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly.  First off, the graphical quality standards (which include the difference between 2d and 3d) for the 360 are almost definately different for Live Arcade games vs. retail store games.  It's probably harder to pass a 2D game as a retail release, even if it's 720p.

 

Secondly, even if 720p is the only thing holding them back, I'd hardly call it "laziness" on SNK's part.  Nevermind that it's MS that demands 720p, converting or completely redoing graphics, especially 2D sprites, for 720p requires a lot of labor that isn't free.  SNK, or any company, has to decide which titles on what platforms to allocate their limited resources to.  If it would take just 2 developers to port assets to 720p, SNK has to decide whether or not it's worth taking those 2 developers off of a game that's nearing completion for release on another system, or budgetting another 2 employees.  What you're calling "laziness" was probably pretty well thought out.  They know more about their profit potential and their system-specific demographics than we do.

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No, they're most definitely lazy. You merely need to look at they way they recycle artwork to see that. Even 3D game devs need to make hi-res textures. Why can't SNK? The simple answer is they can, they just don't want to. Hell, just do it the cheap way and simply scale everything up. It won't look as pretty as something initally drawn at a higher res, but it should get the job done.

 

The bottom line it that SNK and Capcom have been sliding by for years recycling their artwork in their fighters while every other dev on the planet has been moving forward with the times. They really only have a fairly small hardcore audience left and this is largely their own fault for not keeping their games fresh and moving forward like everyone else and it's about time they start.

Edited May 21, 2006 by Thraxen

[someboddy]

It's not really lazyness, cause the guys that decide between using the old graphics and drawing new ones are not the guys who need to draw new graphics. So don't say lazy, say cheap.

 

SNK have to choose between making new characters and redrawing the old ones. Now, the problem is that if they want to redraw the old characters, well, if they are making another KoF for example there are far too many of them!!! And if they want to make new characters, they have to draw them at the same quality as the old ones, otherwise it will look strange to see a low rez kyo fighting a high rez brandnewkyoclone. It's a circle you can't escape!

[Wizard]

Cheap. Cut costs. SNK isn't the richest company, and can only afford so much to redo. How much was NGBC new and old? How much was KOFXI new and old? Hell, How much was Neowave new and old, actually the last one is pretty simple. Upscaled, differnet backgrounds, new music, Young Geese is the only new sprite.

 

Remember, SNK gets MOST of it's revune from the arcade ops, and minorily from the consoles.

[Thraxen]

You guys make good points... but perhaps they could help broaded their audience if they modernized their graphics? I'm not saying go to 3D or anything, but make much more detailed 2D graphics. It's not like 2D games are no longer profitable... Capcom does well with their Castlevania 2D games.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that they are going to have to re-draw all their characters at some point anyway. At least if they want to keep having console releases they are going to have to. Nintendo may have given them a pass this generation, but it's not likely to happen next time. Plus, even if a company like Nintendo keep letting them release their lo-res games, their audience will shrink to the point where there will be no more profit to be had. You have to advance at some point or fade into gaming history.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Thraxen

[Daeval]

Most of the companies that have "advanced" have done so via 3D animation, which is cheap and efficient compared to high-res, high-frame-count 2D art. Most of the recent, succesful 2D games, like Capcom's Castlevania series, have largely been handheld titles, which don't call for hi-res graphics. Combine the cost of animation with the relatively small demand for 2D fighters and I can imagine it's hard to justify an entire 40+ character King of Fighters cast worth of art, plus stages.

 

Off the top of my head, Sammy is the only company I can recall that ever bothered with Hi-Res 2D sprites, and they have basically 1 game's worth of it to speak of, and with a very niche audience.

 

I definately want SNK (and Capcom, for that matter) to try their hand at hi-res 2D graphics. I also agree that eventually they're going to have to, because you're right, their audience will probably get smaller if they don't. But I think it's going to be a very careful balancing act for them. They're going to have to find just the right moment when the demographic is large and they have the funds to risk dumping on such an ambitious project. It would not surprise me if SNK was trying to cultivate such a moment with their recent titles and home ports, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Thraxen]

Sorry, I just don't think doing that is anymore difficult than what it takes to create 3D worlds with millions of polys, hi-res textures, advanced physics, advanced lighting effects, etc, etc... And this 3D animation that you call "easy" is often accomplished through rather sophisticated motion capture techniques. SNK's games are easy in comparison. Who cares if they have to draw a bunch of hi-res sprites? Draw sprite, copy sprite but move leg a bit, etc... And you act like this is such a huge undertaking all the while seeming to forget they've had YEARS and YEARS to do it. They've been recycling the same stuff over and over. In the mean time other companies have cranked out dozens of different games... not just the same fighter over and over with subtle changes. Get with the program already.

Edited May 22, 2006 by Thraxen

[Wizard]

It's actually a redumental process to make a sprite. Not like Mugen in anyway. What Capcom did with Street Fighter 3, was draw each frame by hand, similar to a cartoon being made, then colouring it in. That's what happens. Also note that SegaSammy is a distributer for Arc System Works (Under the SEGA enterprises).

 

What Guilty Gear did was draw a few frames, and cut out a bunch, then end it. Check out Millia's kick. It really just flys up there because it's a leg, leg moving, curved lines, leg moving then top of the leg. GG's engine is also used in Hotoku no Ken (Fist of the North Star)

 

And then theres The Rumble Fish, which uses a different dynamic. Each limb is drawn by hand, then coloured, then rendered in 3d. To date, TRF is the only game besides Street Fighter 3 to utilize such a dynamic process to create an amazingly fluid animation in a 2d fighting game.

 

Alot has changed with SNKPlaymore when it comes to making 2d fighters. Using a similar technique to SF3's but more lean to cut corners to accomendate it's massive roster. They also use OLDER sprites as "new moves" or "different stance" on older characters in newer games (2k2-Neowave Kim, `98-2k1 Iroi, handful of other characters).

 

Also in consideration how many PEOPLE actually work on these games. A team of 3-4 programmers, 3 artists(character art, in game, ending/intro), 3-4 graphic artists, 2 sound guy and a bunch of Voice Actors. Theres more voice actors then staff for crying out loud. (Psst, CFJ only had 29 people, 10 if you don't count the voice actors, 18 if you count band that does the music)

 

It's much easier to create 3D these days. Because they crank them out at high-res textures then just downsample it per game last generation. Need to be in a FMV? Use the Hi-res model. And for in-game? Just down sample it.

 

And guys, Konami makes Castlevania.

[L.S.D]

Thanks for the entertaining facts, K