PhilExile
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Posts posted by PhilExile
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Hey XxHellsFuryxX, did you get my email?
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Hey Cos,
I'm on it.
I was already able to take the pixel perfect INIs I had made from the INIs you sent me this past winter and insert the Aspect code into all of them. It took about 30 seconds with some freeware program I found - so no problem there. I also have all the resolution INIs, along with the corresponding games, backed up on my computer, which we can use those as a starting point. Unfortunately, the games are from RX's set, so it doesn't include clones and whatnot. I do want to include these so we can release these INIs to the public.Anyway this is what we need to do.
1. Sort all of the ROMs into their native resolution folder - i.e. - 320x240
2. Create one perfect pixel INI for each of these resolution sets - already completed this past winter, so we should be good with just tweaking for 1.4!
3. Once this is done, I have a program that basically will take the file names from one folder (ROMS), minus the extension, and apply it to the files in another folder's contents (INIs)
4. Launch each game to make sure its OK
Basically, the hardest part is sorting the ROMs - the rest should be easy! We can talk more tomorrow. If anyone wants to help (Bigby) who is good at organizing (Bigby) they'd be more than (Bigby) welcome!
Cheers everyone
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Ha, this is great! I think the change in 'intensity' is because the scanlines are sometime off register. I would aways get weird results with scanlines at 720p in FBL. For instance: the top 1/3 of the screen would be light, the middle 1/3 dark, and the bottom light. It would vary.
Talk soon
Phil, here I show also the darker and brighter scanlines,however I just noticed this is possible only under 720p!
In 480p this weird feature does not exist.
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Wow - very impressive.
T, I keep forgetting to ask - does FBL take advantage of additional RAM and/or upgraded CPUs if you have them?
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Wow - that new functionality is awesome. Cos, you are going to shit yourself.
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Believe me, you want to be on 480p - your TV is doing crazy things to your mind!
Phil,I am on 720p.
I have not found any advantages to stick in 480p.
I will make a video of this weird "feature"and share with you guys.
=C=
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Lol, that's EXACTLY how i set up my pixel perfect screen on my sdtv (480i)
Ha - glad I'm not alone!
and i noticed too, the vertical size of the screen isn't modified with fbl 1.4, i only have a small distortion horizontallyAh, good to hear the issue is consistent! Gil, did you apply the AspectCorrect fix prior to importing to 1.4 as we were discussing earlier in the thread. I assume you did if your results were positive overall.
i agree for been able to modify with the dpad the smaller modifier value when pressing it (it would act the same as the right thumbstick)Right, that was my thought as well. A lot of time, its a matter of getting the right pressure on the thumbstick and it gets very frustrating.
it would solve the problem because we would be able to modify the screen value the more precisely possibleWell, I would like to figure out what is causing the 1.3 INIs not to be imported perfectly horizontally. (Without driving +T+ crazy of course)
and as far as i m concerned i hadn't any issue with my screen values when i move it only with the left thumbstickSame here. I have noticed that this happens sometimes when I move it up and down, although, I've always attributed that to the scanlines.
Thanks for chiming in.
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Hey Cos,
Something doesn't sound right. Lets wait till I can get home and test this some more. I have a feeling your television is doing some odd upscaling/filtering to the 480p image.
Talk soon
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Suggestion:
D-Pad alone, increases and decreases screen size.
Hold A, or X, or Y, or both triggers + D-Pad, moves the offset X and Y.
Holding both triggers is a great idea. I never thought of that.
And yes yes yes...We areaware of the slight ditortion/blur that could happen when you move around a screen in pixel perfect set.
I even benefit of it sometimes (on non rotated vertical games) to find the best sharp spot!
Really? I never noticed this. I always moved the game screen around to see if any distortion happened. I'm going to try to make a really high res video of this ASAP.
Thanks all
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It's possible, but you need 2 sticks to resize the screen and you only have one d-pad so how would that work?
I'd like the two thumbstick's functionality to remain the same. We'd just like to add screen sizing to the D-Pad for precise changes. Basically, it would serve the same purpose as the right thumbstick, but one increment would equal one click in whatever direction.
The other thing with FBL's screen sizing system, as you may or may not have discovered yet, is that once you have a pixel perfect screen size set, if you even move the screen (without resizing) you will still introduce slight distortion and will have to resize again.This hasn't been my experience. Basically this is how I find the perfect pixel proportion:
1. After I launch the game, I find the correct vertical size. This is fairly easy with scanlines because the pixels will 'lock' into place and become very sharp. If they aren't 'locked' the entire game screen appears blurry. This is most noticeable in type.
2. Then I re-size the horizontal. When resizing, you can see multiple lines (or waves) in the image as you are changing the horizontal size. It starts off with a lot of lines throughout, but as you get closer to the correct value, these lines begin to lessen in number until they are eliminated.
3. I then move the screen's position with the left thumbstick left to right to see if any distortions appear. If it is correct, there will be none and the screen will move smoothly across the monitor.
So you would need the same precision on both the move and resize controls.I think we would just need it on the resize, the move doesn't seem to affect things in my experience. I'm going to try to make a high resolution video of this tonight or tomorrow to upload for people to see.
Thanks again!
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Cos, you probably have an outdated set. I think that FBL 1.4 uses new roms than 1.3 did. You should PM Bigby. He will be able to point you to the place where you can get the most recent built from the DATs included with 1.4.
Talk soon
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But in the end, if the problem could not be found/fixed,
I will try to manually export and correct all my INI somehow.
I have one idea already...
What's the idea? Please share!
PS. Phil --- Please remember that NeoGeo has TWO distinct INIs!One for 320x224 and other for 304x224!
Not all have same width!
Yes, I found that out this past winter. Usually, MAWS list them as all the same size unfortunately. Thank you for the heads up though.
T, would it be hard to add the functionality to be able to adjust the screen size by using the D-Pad? It would be great if one 'click' to the left, right, up, down would equal the smallest integer change of screen size. Its really hard - and usually takes a lot of trial and error, to set the size exactly right with the right thumbstick.
Thanks again
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Hi T, yes, that is what I did.
In 1.3, if the size is perfect - meaning no distortions, then in 1.4 its very slightly off horizontally - not vertically. The horizontal size of the screen is either too small or large, but by a very minute amount.
I assume the size values in the INI interact with 'base' screen size and position values in FBL. Is it possible that these change very slightly between the two versions?
You should add the extra line to the ini before adjusting the screen, not after. -
Thanks, Fu!
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Hey Cos,
I just tried these same two games. See below for the results:
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ALEX KIDD (Set 2)
I launched this in FBL 1.3 to double-check my screen size. I noticed that the horizontal was very slightly off - probably due to my own error. For people that wonder, to check the horizontal screen size, you go into the screen setup screen and move the game screen back-and-forth from right to left with the left thumbstick. If you notice 'waves' appearing in the image as you do this, the horizontal size is either too big or small. By eliminating these waves, it stops distortions from appearing in-game - like a ship flying through an invisible line that offsets its pixels.
Anyway, I fixed it, copied it to my PC, added the AspectCorrect line of code, and copied it over the FBL 1.4. Unfortunately when I opened the game in 1.4, I noticed the horizontal screen distortion 'waves' had returned. However, adding the line of code definitely had a positive effect. Without it, the screen size would have been totally off - including the vertical size - which was not the case.
MUTATION NATION
I launched this in FBL 1.3 to double-check my screen size and it was perfect. I did the same to the INI as with ALEX KIDD and opened it in FBL 1.4. Again, the horizontal was very slightly off and the waves were there.
Cos, I think that WILLOW - a 16:9 widescreen game - imported 100% perfect because you already 'crushed' the horizontal pixels to fit the 4:3 space. If the size of the horizontal screen is slightly off, it probably doesn't show up as prominently as in games like ALEX KIDD and MUTATION NATION, which are both native 4:3.
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Basically, I think we solved the larger half of a two-part problem. I'm going to play around with FBL 1.4 skin INI and some other stuff to see if that has any sort of effect - even though I know its not supposed to. You never know.
Update: OK - I tried a few things, including altering the INI to match 1.3 values, which Gilou9999 suggested. Nothing seemed to work.
Its my guess that something is different in the code that controls how the horizontal size is calculated. My first thought was that it was due to the rotation correction that Neo found, but I loading his build up and it didn't have the screen issue we are seeing in 1.4.
T, is there anything that you can think of at this point? It would have something to do with the horizontal size or position of the game screen. The vertical doesn't seem to be affected. Considering how small the variation is - I'm guessing it may be something that is only slightly different.
Thank you again!
I am completely lost on this...Tried again to import INIs and the screen gets messed up.
I did pick my DINO.INI from FBL 1.3 and added the line
"AspectCorrect=0" and the game screen was imported 100% perfect
inside FBL 1.4.
But I tried same trick with Alex Kidd and Mutation Nation (NeoGeo)
and got no results.
Ouch...
I don't know what more to do.
=/
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There is - see the last post from that thread you posted:
Since it doesn't look like we'll be getting 240p output from the emulators in question anytime soon, I figured I would post this article:http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
The article explains that you can get an Extron Emotia scan converter to force the Xbox to output 240p.
1. You do need to either convert the Xbox's component signal to VGA or just get the Frosty VGA cables.
2. You then output the Xbox using VGA to the Emotia and select 480p output.
3. Flip a switch on the Emotia to "non-interlaced" and, boom, the flickering is gone and you now have scanlines, 240p.
This works great and Emotias are generally cheap, ranging from $50-$60 for the basic model and $120 for the new, "Super" version. Each does the same thing though, so try to get the cheaper one if you can.
Many thanks to Tobias!!!
Nice to see that there is still some xbox development going on...I used to play a lot of FBL and Coinops some time ago, but then switched to MAME on a PC, only because on the PC there is a way of outputing non interlaced 15khz video resolutions to a standard CRT Scart-TV. The picture quality is so much better, and its "pixel perfect" by nature...(Soft15kHz)
I see that there is alot of "pixel perfect" stuff going on here. Maybe there is a way to output non interlaced resolutions on a xbox as well, that would make a lot of pixel perfect stuff obsolete. Have a look at http://forums.xbox-scene.com/lofiversion/i...hp/t662368.html
I would love to switch back to xbox FBL / Coinops because I totally miss the perfect user interfaces. They were just perfect compared to the PC stuff.
But the playing experience is so much better on a PC due to the low res non interlaced video output....
keep up the good work....
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Well, I can suggest two things:
1. Make the fix and put at the start of the read me file that you need to delete any INIs from the ini/emulation directory. This will avoid any hiccups between the revisions.
2. You could make two XBEs - one for users upgrading from 1.3 INIs and one for 1.4 users. This could get confusing though.
Thanks again, T!
I took a look at this earlier and the ini problem is an easy fix... or, that is to say, would have been an easy fix.Basically I should have put the AspectCorrect line at the bottom of the ini file. That way it would not mess up other settings if you tried to use an ini that didn't have it. Of course I could easily move AspectCorrect to the bottom of the ini in FBL1.5 and your 1.3 inis would work fine, but this will then mess up other settings in any game that has an existing 1.4 ini.
So I face a bit of a dilemma. I should have done this right from the start, but, since I didn't, I can't see a way of going back without screwing up a whole lot of inis for a whole lot of people (which obviously I'm not going to do). Apologies for the oversight, I am still giving it some thought.
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Those tracks are pretty long mp3 files. Try cutting them down in an audio editing program, maybe even reducing the bitrate. There's no reason they shouldn't play as well as any other mp3 file.
OK - I'll look into that.
If PC FBA allows mouse control then it may be possible to port it across to FBL. I don't have a mouse adapter for my Xbox though so would be difficult to test.I'd be glad to mail you one.
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I think this is the problem, but lets wait to hear back from Cos - he is the definitive expert in pixel perfection.
I'll try to test later today as well, but I have work to do now.
Thanks again!
If the problem is definitely the AspectCorrect line in the game ini being set to 13 then that should be an easy fix. So basically you're saying that if I can get FBL to add that line to a 1.3 ini with the correct value of 0 then your problems are solved? -
Hey T,
Could you look into adding these Arcade Ambiance tracks into the default FBL skin? I tried to do it myself, but for some reason, it stuttered and made the interface hiccup. It would also be great if we could select which of the four tracks to play - if its not too much trouble of course. Here is a link:
http://arcade.hofle.com/downloads.htm
Also, how hard would it be to add custom controls to FBL? In CoinOps, for games such as ARKANOID, MISSILE COMMAND, and CRYSTAL CASTLES there is an option for mouse input. This allows you to use a trackball or spinner dial for games that supported them. This really adds to the experience and I think it would be an excellent addition. CENTIPEDE just can't be expected to be played with a joy/thumstick!
Thanks
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Cos, if you were using the INIs I sent last night/earlier today, they are incorrect since they were made with 1.4. I just sent you a batch of the old ones we were working on this past winter. Those should work as long as you add that line in the proper place.
Talk soon
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Hello,
Indirectly, that what was causing the issue. This will mainly affect NeoGeo games. Please see the example below:
When I opened the WILLOW game with an INI from 1.3, this is what 1.4 did to the last three lines of code:
AspectCorrect=13
SNKBIOS=0
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000
It either flops the AspectCorrect and SNKBIOS markups or just doesn't move the 13 down to the SNK line. This must also play havoc with the screen size since FBL is likely reading the '13' as just a '1' which means YES COMPRESS THE SCREEN. Cos, this is why your setting were so out of wack and you couldn't fix them.
By manually pre-fixing the INI to read correctly before opening the game, I was able to successfully import the INI to 1.4. It read:
AspectCorrect=0
SNKBIOS=13
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000
Hopefully, this can be fixed for 1.5.
I know people are probably still saying 'why the heck does this matter' - well, it does!
Here are two images from WILLOW that show how the screen size is wrong. It focuses on the text, not the horizontal distortion that you would see throughout the game. This is the easiest way to illustrate the importance of accurate screen size. Since old games had limited real estate, the type design doesn't lend itself to much scaling - especially if scanlines are in the picture. This makes the text become blurry and, in some cases, unreadable. See below:
INCORRECT:
CORRECT:
Thanks again T for putting up with all our nitpicking!
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Hey T, I'll try that
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Hey T,
I was just comparing two INIs for the game, EIGHTMAN, which is listed at MAWS as 320x240 - standard for NeoGeo, though not 100% consistent.
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Here is the INI from version 1.3 - I double checked and there are no distortions when opened in 1.3, but when its opened in 1.4 - it needs to be corrected, although, usually the width ends up not being 100% correct.
zLeft=-0.089999
zRight=0.099999
zTop=0.200000
zBottom=0.370000
SoftwareFilter=0
HardwareFilter=1
vsyncEnabled=1
pixelRatio=0
FlickerFilter=0
Soften=0
nAudDSPModule=0
disableMenuSounds=0
RotationDegrees=0.000000
CursorSpeed=7
nInterpolation=1
nFMInterpolation=0
HiScoreSaving=0
DipEnabled=0
CPUSpeed=256
neoGeoFree=0
bAlwaysDrawFrames=1
SNKBIOS=13
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000
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Here is the same INI altered by 1.4, which is close to, but not perfect:
zLeft=0.360001
zRight=0.549999
zTop=0.210000
zBottom=0.380000
SoftwareFilter=0
HardwareFilter=1
vsyncEnabled=1
pixelRatio=0
FlickerFilter=0
Soften=0
nAudDSPModule=0
disableMenuSounds=0
RotationDegrees=0.000000
CursorSpeed=7
nInterpolation=1
nFMInterpolation=0
HiScoreSaving=0
DipEnabled=0
CPUSpeed=256
neoGeoFree=0
bAlwaysDrawFrames=1
AspectCorrect=13
SNKBIOS=13
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000
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I noticed the AspectCorrect entry. What does this do exactly? Could that be causing the problem?
Thanks again
Final Burn Legends 1.4
in Final Burn (FBA/FBL/FBC)
Posted
You're right, billinear hides the artifacts.
Once Cos and I finish our set, we can post links for download. I doubt it will be any more than 1 meg at most. Also, if T wants, we could include these with FBL at some point. Not as the default, but just included in a folder if you want to use them. They will be for 480i/p only, unless Cos wants to make 720p too. The only games I could see the point of that for though would be the widescreen Capcom ones.