PhilExile
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Posts posted by PhilExile
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Hello T,
I noticed a few games that do not work and a bad interface bug. (I think) The following games do not work:
4in1 - freezes at boot screen, there are red numbers present
Ace Attacker FD 1094 - I get the FBL encountered a problem screen
Alien Challenge - Both the China and USA version of the ROM cause the Xbox to crash, requiring a hard restart
Alpha Mission II (Prototype) - garbled graphics
The other issue is that I cannot hit 'A' to select a game and the 'fast-scroll' triggers do not work, nor do the left/right quick jump controls in the rom list. This isn't an issue with the controller, it seems only to happen in FBL's romlist. This bug cropped up after I loaded Alien Sector. I've turned my xbox on and off, etc and nothing fixes it. I assume there is a bad file somehwere causing this. I also tried rebuilding my romlist which didn't work.
When you have a moment, please advise.
Thanks!
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EDIT: User error.
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Street Fighter - The Movie is playable at around 55-60FPS on some stages in mameox/coinops if CPU0 is underclocked to like 25% (game still runs at correct speed), but on some stages it slows down to like half that...possibly because of multiple background layers. CPU1 needs to stay at 100% though, because it affects the speed of the music...and when it gets below like 25%, voices/samples will start playing late/not at all.
Hey JL, that's some really interesting information!
I can load Street Fighter: The Movie on my Trusty Upgraded Xbox (1.4ghz/128RAM) and have it run full speed. (Just an FYI)
I never messed around with the CPU speeds on any of the games. How did you know to tweak and what is the logic behind the settings you used? Also, are the settings saved if you close the game and then reopen it at a later date? I'm wondering if I can improve performance on some games that ran really slow, but otherwise appeared to work OK. For instance, RADIANT SILVERGUN loaded, but only played at 9 FPS. This was a 'big' improvement over a stock Xbox which ran 1-3FPS. (I think)
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OK, great!
So what do you think the issue is with Ninja Baseball Batman? It doesn't seem to load at all. Is this the case with everyone?
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I just tried to load this and after the RAM OK ROM OK screen it turned black. The emulator is still running though and I can quit back to the list. Is this normal for this Ninja Baseball Batman?
If the newer cores are slower on stock Xbox systems, which version of Final Burn Legends would you recommend?
Thanks
Irem M92 games such as Ninja Baseball Batman also get particularly poor framerates on a stock Xbox.
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Hey T,
Irronically, if you are using a modern HDTV you can achieve the same screen proportions by setting the 'pixel perfect' size, using 10x11 mode, 480p, and finally stretching the screen to 16:9 mode rather than 4:3. The only time you run into issues is with SDTVs.
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I just tried R-TYPE in FBL 1.9 and it played fine - 59.9999 FPS. Maybe because I'm using a Trusty upgrade?
Any other roms that you know of that tax the Xbox? I'd like to try them out and see how they perform.
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Hey T,
I think this machine was cobbled together with a bunch of different parts. I was trying to make the point that the hardware does send a certain picture size to the monitor to display. This is what I'm trying to always lock onto with the Xbox emulators. There is some give and take with it of course. I think sometimes they used whatever parts were available too - especially in the 80s.
The thing about the scanlines is interesting though. Basically, some monitors show them more than others. The candy cabs (and my Sony PVM) have really strong scanlines. The X-MEN monitor in my picts you can barely see them, the same with most MS PAC-MAN cabs. Here is a brief explanation from my friend Tobias who runs that scanline site: " There are different pixel masks inside the tubes. You can't "emulate" this with a device like the SLG. You can create digital filters which works fine on ultra-high resolution displays - Retina and such..."
I'll take some more pictures of different games then next time I'm there and post them.
Talk soon
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Hey T,
And here are those arcade photos I promised - months later.
The game shown is X-MEN. The monitor is in pretty bad shape (well used) and the picture is pretty blurry. I noticed the montiors that hold up the best are the candy cabs from Japan. They are very sharp and have very black, distinct scanlines, unlike the X-MEN monitor shown here. My PVM has a very similar tube to the candy cabs.
You'll see below that there is space around the edge of the monitor and the image doesn't stretch edge-to-edge. It is displayed approximately at what the 'perfect pixel' size would be, which is a 302 pixel width for this game I believe. This accounts for the space around the edges. I can't check for sure since Maws is down.
Cheers!
XMEN - Overview
X-MEN - Closeup #1
X-MEN - Closeup #2
The thing is, when talking about CRT TVs, it's completely redundant to refer to horizontal resolution. These displays don't have a horizontal resolution since the display is not made up of pixels, it's made up of horizontal lines. Each line is approximately one pixel tall so the number of lines used vertically does conform to the native vertical resolution of the hardware (except every other line is blank hence the scanlines). However the native horizontal resolution of the hardware is irrelevant since, however many pixels there are, they will always be stretched to the full length of the line. So in order to replicate this with an emulator we need to set the vertical size to a multiple of the native vertical resolution of the system (hence giving the correct number of 'lines') and then we just need to decide how long our lines are going to be, since this is determined by the display and is different for every TV; there is no 'perfect' value.I know from working with these games on a PVM, that unless you set the horizontal size 'perfectly' there will be a distortion. For instance, when I tried to set a game like SALAMANDER to stretch to fill the screen through the emulator and go beyond 512 pixels - you will see these 'waves' that your ship will fly through. Its almost like a wrinkle in the screen. I'm not denying that in the arcade this game is stretched edge-to-edge most of the time. However, I think this is similar to the NES/SNES were there was something in the hardware that acted like an upscaler in some ways. It wasn't something that was specific to the CRT technology - as far as I know.
The best thing (and I don't know if this is possible) would be to build a second pass scale into an emulator. For instance:
1. You set your perfect pixel screen size or just set it to double the pixel size of the arcade rom - 256x224 becomes 512x448
2. Set your TV's resolution to 4:3 in the preferences
3. When you launch the game, the emulator scales the image to 640x448 to fit your screen*
*I believe this is what BSNES does.
And in case you're wondering about rotated arcade games. The above still applies since it's just a regular monitor turned on its side, so the vertical lines now appear to the player to run horizontally across the screen. The 'height' of the lines is still determined by the display and will still always be the same size.Yes, I know. I play a lot of MS. PAC-MAN, T.
I actually have a PVM set on its side for vertical games only.The SUPER MARIO WORLD is a great example. Again, I'm not arguing with what you are saying. Its just the way these emulators are built, if you don't find the 'perfect pixel' width - there is distortion introduced. There must be a way to stretch the image horizontally, after its been set, to fill the screen.
Talk soon
PS - I still plan on doing 'research' at the bar/arcade. Don't try to stop me, T!
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Hi T,
Which Irem and Data East games in particular are you referring to?
Thanks
This is even true of older games; the Irem and Data East drivers from the last few builds of FB Alpha are a good example as even the oldest games they support struggle to get a decent framerate on the Xbox.
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EDIT: Please disregard. I reinstalled and that fixed it. I must have screwed the pooch at some point.
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Hello,
I haven't messed with FBL in a while, or the Xbox in general, but I finally got around to loading up v1.9. The first game I tried to load - Asura Buster - plays super slow, as does Asura Blade. Usually, they average 10fps. Is this normal? It seems odd to me that they'd be included in this state and seeing as I have a Trusty upgraded Xbox system, I can't imagine what it must be like on a standard.
Is there something wrong with my setup or is this normal? Other, older games seem to play fine.
Thanks
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Hey Fu,
Hope all is well. I think your inbox is full and I wanted to ask you a question. When you have a chance, could you clear some stuff so I can send you a PM?
Thanks!
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wow - this is really great! I remember testing this out and getting very low FPS. Maybe there is hope for some of the other low framerate games in MAME after all?l
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From X-S:
Since it doesn't look like we'll be getting 240p output from the emulators in question anytime soon, I figured I would post this article:
http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
The article explains that you can get an Extron Emotia scan converter to force the Xbox to output 240p.
1. You do need to either convert the Xbox's component signal to VGA or just get the Frosty VGA cables.
2. You then output the Xbox using VGA to the Emotia and select 480p output.
3. Flip a switch on the Emotia to "non-interlaced" and, boom, the flickering is gone and you now have scanlines, 240p.
This works great and Emotias are generally cheap, ranging from $50-$60 for the basic model and $120 for the new, "Super" version. Each does the same thing though, so try to get the cheaper one if you can.
Many thanks to Tobias!!!
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If you want to get the 240p look in HD mode, you can do this as well. Check out the SLG3000 - http://www.arcadeforge.de
You can use this in conjunction with a YUV-to-VGA transcoder and 480p output on the Xbox. It works very well.
Good luck!
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Hello, I plan on making perfect pixel INIs for each of the games with Cos. Unfortunately, work has been keeping me busy - but it will happen this winter.
T is right in that the monitors stretched the image, but by displaying the actual pixel size without filters, everything looks sharper.
T, thanks again for the releases!
Sorry but I've never understood the whole "pixel perfect" thing. The original arcade monitors stretched their display to 4:3 so FBL stretches its display to 4:3. I have no plans to alter this, plus it would be extremely difficult to implement custom values for all games due to the way FBL renders its video. You can always set up per-game screen sizes yourself.
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Thanks for all the hard work, T! Much appreciated!!!!
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Thanks again for this T!
I guess me and Cos should get started on that pixel perfect set of INIs now that the screen setup system is now resolved.
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Is there a site that details how difficult it is to overclock it?
Please post!
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Now that's one hell of a change log. Looking foward to the update.
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I guess I just don't understand why you would need the resistors in the first place.
The way this works is that you are creating a bridge between an XBOX controller and, for example, a NES pad. If you break it down, its basically a wire bridge to each button: XBOX 'A' – WIRE (via DB-15) – NES 'A'
There is no 'power' from the NES pad, so I'm not sure how anything could be burned out. However, I'm not an expert with electronics or anything, so maybe I'm missing something.
Hi, so what is the value of the resistor to use and where does it go? I read over the posts, but its not 100% clear. (Or I'm not noticing at least)Thanks!
It's on Spinal's scheme from my above post, when taking signal from pointed area,
use 6x 4.7K resistor for A - B - X - Y - WHITE - BLACK
and 4x 33 Ohm for U - D - L - R direction button,
Leaving BACK and START as it is (direct GND contact)
I glued those resistor within the DB-15/25 socket.
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Hi, so what is the value of the resistor to use and where does it go? I read over the posts, but its not 100% clear. (Or I'm not noticing at least)
Thanks!
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Hello,
I modded a lot of controllers using this method - NES, SNES, Genesis, 2600, 5200*, etc. Instead of VGA cable, I used a DB-15 or DB-25 cable. Modern VGA cables no longer have the necessary number of wires. I'm confused why you had to use a resistor. Is this something specific to using it witha jamma board? I never had any problems and I never included a resistor in my setup.
* I actually took pictures and wrote up a 'how-I-did-it' for the 5200 controller which I'll be posting over at Atari Age. I promised a member there that I would post it at that forum.
The 5200 controller was more of a hack than the others. I'll be sure to post a link to the post here for those that are interested.
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thanks for the tip, ace!
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Hello,
After finally experimenting with the most recent MAME on the PC, I've again realized what a unique platform the original XBOX is for emulation. Basically, perfect pixel is impossible on the PC version of MAME. A friend told me this is because when MAME started it was a DirectDraw application and in DirectDraw the scanlines are overlayed on the unscaled game output and the output is scaled afterwards. Only with the step to Direct3D it became important, but it was never fixed. BP really did an amazing job on the pixel perfect functionality! No other port of MAME has anything like it.
Anyway, I just wanted to let people know who are maybe yearning for the more 'powerful' PC equivalent of their emulators - you aren't missing out on much. The Nestopia port for the Xbox even seems to be surpassing the native PC version and with the new SNES update from Madmab coming soon, we are going to be set.
Thanks to all!
Final Burn Legends 1.9
in Final Burn (FBA/FBL/FBC)
Posted · Edited by PhilExile
Hey T, just don't touch the screen code! For one - the improvements you made are great! The generic (620-ish? x 448 pixel setup is perfect for most people. Most important is that I finally got around to making 'pixel perfect' INIs for the complete set and I think I'd jump out a window if you changed this part of the code up again.
Also, I have to say it was very easy going this time around due to the fixes you made to screen code and the UI enhancements you added - so thank you again!
For people who are interested in these, they should be available in a few weeks. I just have to test them to make sure they are all OK. Cos helped me batch the INIs, which for the most part worked out really well.
Could this be removed from the DATs next time around? No point in having nonworking games right?
Could this also be removed then and leave the clone?
Also, I just had an issue loading Asura Blade/Buster which took a while and then when it did load, it ran super slow. This happened before and I delete some files and that seemed to fix it, but that doesn't seem to be working now. Any idea what could be causing this?
If this doesn't happen, can these be removed from the DAT?
Did this work in previous versions of FBL? If not, can it also be removed from the DAT?
This happened again and I switched controllers and that solved it - so you hit the nail on the head. Why does this happen and is there a way to 'fix' it? The reason I ask is because Xbox thumbsticks crap out a lot.
I found a few more games that have some problems. See below:
Bagman - quits with FBL encountered a problem
Bagman Moon Cresta - loads, but has garbled graphics on title screen - wrong colors too
Battle Chopper - sprites are all goofed up (invisible walls)
Best of the Best - choppy sound and animation (similar to Asura Blade/Buster)
Block Carnival / Thunder and Lightening 2 - blinking tilt message, but the game doesn't load
Burning Fight (Prototype) - garbled graphics (I guess this is the same problem as the other NeoGeo proto?)
Again, thanks, T!