[S4]The Phantom

Here's some added information for Ukyo for Ugenn along with my previous post. A version of Tsubame Gaeshi lands at a closer spot after blocked. B version of Tsubame Gaeshi executes the fastest but lands at an even closer spot after blocked. AB version of Tsubame Gaeshi is a bit slow but does tremendous damage, much as the SS4's Tsubame Gaeshi in Rage mode. However, whether it hits or blocked Ukyo coughs blood, making a long delay. Ukyo's Crouching AB is a bit slower but his Dash AB is faster. His feint apple throw recovers faster, and standing C's cancel point has been deleted. Once I get the full translation of the site I will edit my first post and add ukyo to it. But for now this is all I've got

Wait, is this about SSZ:Special? I didn't think there was bust OR slash in SSZ or SSZ:Special...

Ok, what move are we talking about here? K'Dash is talking about Tsubame Gaeshi. Nohara must be referring to Kagerou(fireball)? Which is which?

Sadly, I wasn't able to find a credible source about Ukyo However, from the videos and those who have played it, the following are the changes. Ukyo's grab range has increased, along with dash Grab more viable. That I can see from the Gedo vs. Ukyo video. Also, his Tsubame Gaeshi is a multiple hit skill now. So maybe its possible to escape from it with Rage Explosion or Hanzo's escape skill. (this is unconfirmed) His Crouching A and C recovers slower now, it seems. However he is much better than the super-weak paper samurai in SSZ; he is still a difficult character but in general Ukyo is much more balanced (meaning beefed). His standing AB seems to have increased damage, look at that part where he does almost 50% with one AB in the Gedo vs Ukyo video. However, his Tsubamegaeshi AB version now has increased delay. One sad thing is that he still has one of the least amount of defense(almost of those of ruru sisters), so as the video proves, few headbutts can kill ukyo real fast. Just a note, Gedo's Iron Press throw ignores defense, so no character recieves more or less damage than others when hit by it.

Btw, what is CFJ? I can't make out what the initials stand for.

Maybe it includes close spam threads....

As I now see my half-done post, the whole thing looks boring as hell even though I wrote it..

Naw, not a chance But for sharing's sake I'll try to cover some stuff that hasn't been posted yet

Idiotaphobia. Man they scare me.

That's his command throw. f,b,d,u+C. Really tough to pull off from a standing position. Remember that if you do not go through the neutral position of 5, the move will not execute. That's if you're using a lever/stick Sound hard to pull off Normally I just do the "ghost summon from the ground grab move", get near and strong slash. Pretty lame, I know I don't know if that's lame. I'd say that's suicide

Huh? mine's in Japanese...

Update history: Added new chars as well as new system analysis [7/27] Added rest of the characters and fixed spelling errors and minor:) mistakes [9/12] Added analysis for the boss characters [9/15] Too search a specific character, press ctrl+F and search for the word in the text. There might be mistakes in translation, description, and maybe even missing information. However, I tried my best to share the newest information on what's changed and what has not changed. Bare with me if some thing's don't make sense - I'll try to clarify them. For moves that sound unfamiliar, I've added description and the command for the move, so please look it up in www.gamesfaq.com. The original text is from This Japanese site and This Korean site, which had the stuff translated in Korean. Please don't copy & paste, for this material is a result of many hard work. If you must share it on some other site, please post a link in sake of the poster. I am only taking this time to share it with www.1emulation.com members in a small tribute I could do for this community. (Although not many will read it with interest ) <Glossary> Lever directions: the 8-way stick. 7 8 9 4 5 6 1 2 3 ex) Dash would be 66, forward jump would be 9. Common fireball will be 236 + button. Much easier to read than qcb hcq etc. Mid, Low, High attacks : Mid attacks must be blocked high. Low attacks must be blocked low. High attacks can be blocked by either of them. Grab: The basic "guard crush", executed by pressing F or B + CD. I like to call this plain "grab". Also, you press any slash button after a grab to do damage. I will call this grab-slash. Sword deflection : Offensive block, this can be done by 2146+D. Command throw: unblockable throw moves. Any questions? Strike Throw : looks like command throws but can be blocked. To tell you the truth I just randomly made this up, cuz I couldn't find any better words for it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- < Basic System Changes> 1. When missing a normal grab, each characters have different delays. Short: Gaira, Gedo (grab characters, duh) Normal: Haohmaru, Hanzo, Galford, Genjuro, Basara, ENja, Kazuki, Yoshitora Long: Nakoruru, Rimururu, Jubei, Shizumaru, Zankuro, Rasetsumaru, Rera, Suija, Yunfei, Mina Suicidal: Kyoshiro, Ukyo, Amakusa, Charlotte, Tam Tam, Sogetsu, Gaoh, Mizuki 2. When you grab, your Kenki guages fill up during your grab-slash. Very Very important. 3. Changes in Defense rating: Increased by 5%: Kazuki, Rera Decreased by 5%: Hanzo, Kyoshiro, Shizumaru, Jubei, Charlotte, Sogetsu, Yunfei Decreased by 10%: Suija, Rasetsumaru 4. No more increase in Rage Guage after Hara-kiri(suicide move: 2146+start) 5. Meditation and Mu no Kyouchi No more of D button mash to quickly gain meditation guage. Also, the accumulation of meditation guage over 50% of a character's health bar gives extremely diminishing returns. Damage of Issen(flash of light: BCD) depends on the Meditation guage, and there are 4 levels of its damage. The moment you execute Issen the Mu no Kyouchi goes away. Do NOT use issen from a distance. Basic Meditation Guage of all characters have been increased while its full duration time has been drastically reduced. Even if you max out the meditation guage you can land about 3 Jump ABs. Also, Mu no Kyouchi execution has a delay now, so if you execute it at the same time with enemy's attack, your Mu no Kyouchi will become useless. However, it is invincible against grabs. In other words, Mu no Kyouchi has been significantly weakned. Whew. 6. Zetsumei Ogi What everbody's talking about this emulation season. You must do a rage explosion, while the opponent's health bar must be shorter than his Mu no Kyouchi guage. Zetsumei Ogi ignores the slow effect of Mu no Kyouchi, can be combo-ed from a normal attack, and it has full invincibility. Good as anti-air as well. Not to mention the great effects it comes with ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ <Overall change in the grab system> -Grab command has been changed- From F or B + C button, it is now 6 or 4 + CD. Got those suckers who grab 80% of the whole game. 1. After a grab, you gain advantage if you do not press a slash button right away. This feature has been deleted. In SSZ, some blessed characters could do a normal grab and combo. Now, if you do not use the slash right away, you can no longer combo. For instance, no more Back Grab - Round Axis Kill(Gaira's command throw), or Genjuro's back grab- standing C combo. However, this system actually works for an advantage for Gedo cuz Gedo can either do his super-fast iron press throw or do his Down AB backbone attack against opponents who jump to evade the iron press throw. 2. Grab-Slash damage is now fixed. All characters die with exactly 6 grabs with weapons and 14 grabs without weapons. In SSZ, grab-slash while you were in rage gave extra damage. In specs, grabs with weapon does 22~23 dots of damage while 10~11 without a weapon(a full health bar is 128 dots) 3. When pressing CD out-of-range of normal grab, D button action will be taken. For example, if you press 6 + CD, when out of range, your character will do 6+D (forward hop). Similarly, if you press 4 + CD out of range, your character will do 4 + D move, where you hop upward to evade grabs. This is to prevent those who did Dash C to do either dash kick or grab. No more of that safe-way kitty play.(Well, that's what it says!) 4. Extra feature of "weapon duel" The game must be under the following conditions: - Over 16 game seconds left - Two characters must have a significant gap in hit point bar(about a heavy slash) - On ground, two moves with "weapon duel priority" must clash together. When this happens, the first one to mash the buttons 10 times wins. Also, there is going to be only ONE weapon dueling in a single match. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ Character Changes ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <Hisame Shizumaru> 1. Standing A, Sitting A now has an increased delay after blocked. 2. Close AB changed like what was in SS4. If close enough, you can combo 623 + B or 236 + CD from the front. In the back, you can combo a standing AB or even Down AB. 3. Dash A now strikes with his Umbrella. 4. Dash B can now be canceld. 5. Dash C's cancel timing has decreased. 6. Down C recovers slower. 7. Weapon-less handed small pursuit (2+BC) is now same with the one with the weapon. 8. 236 + Slash (Umbrella throw?) executes slower. the AB version has been removed from the game. 9. 236 + B, AB now recovers faster. 10. 623 + A now knocks over the opponent. 11. 623 + AB gains full invincibility until its attack priority comes out. 12. 214 + Slash (Umbrella spin) now has guard damage. 13. Holding D (the longer you hold, the more damage it does when released) move can now be switched over to different buttons while charging. It can also be started with a different button as well. 14. Holding D of damage level 3~4 has decreased damage. (Note: this move does ridiculous amount of damage after 81 seconds. In SS4, it could kill in one shot) 15. Aerial Umbrella Poke ( 2+slash button) command changed to 2+C. Now you can use low-altitude mid A even if you don't have hands of god. 16. Defense down 1 rank. Conclusion: Extremely powerful in SSZ, has become weakened. While his main play style was poking with fast A and C, and doing damage by grabbing. Instead, his one-hit big damaging skills have been improved, which makes him more of a hefty damage dealer from the poke-poke harass-N-grab character from SSZ. However his low-altitude A is now much more easier to use, so it evens out. However, he is still nerfed from the devil in SSZ. <Haohmaru> 1. Sitting AB's cancel point has been moved back a little bit. So you can no longer do Down AB - 6412346 AB combo from the front. 2. His Jump AB now executes slower. 3. His Dash A is now like that of Rasetsumaru's. 4. Dash B is now cancelable. 5. Dash AB is now the motion of close AB. No more Dash AB doing anti-air. 6. Standing AB, when blocked, recovers slower. 7. Sake bottle-attack(fireball deflector) is now invincible against grabs. 8. His big pursuit (8+BC) damage decreased.(this was needed, imho) 9. His Weapon destroying DM (236 +CD) damage has been evened out: it no longer has focused damage in the last part. Instead, the starting part has same damage with the ending part. Conclusion: No more jump AB spamming. however it still retains its great priority. Due to the change in down AB, its best to combo down AB - 421+B to do damage. Standing AB, when blocked, is cancelable so its not much of a threat. Improvements in his dash attacks are nice, and Dash A is same with Rasetsumaru so it is now a key point in haohmaru rushing. <Rasetsumaru> 1. His close standing AB now is a 2 hit attack with a stab motion in SS3 with Haohmaru bust. The second hit is cancelable. 2. Sitting AB turned into double-slash AB in SS3 of haohmaru bust. looks like close AB in SS2, i heard. 3. Jump AB executes slower. (just like haoh, this was needed) 4. his BC attack now is a hopping attack.(Just like SS3 haoh bust, again) 5. Dash B is now a mid attack(must be blocked high). 6. Dash C with weapon now does damage(bug fixed). 7. Dash AB executes slower now. Got trickier to do anti air with it. Darn. 8. big pursuit damage decreased. boo hoo. 9. His DM (236+CD) has been nerfed. It loses invincibility almost as soon as it strikes up, and if you get hit while doing the DM it does zero damage. BAH. 10. His shoulder bash (623+C) now evades lower attacks. 11. His counterattack (623+slash) damage decreased. As if it wasn't crappy enough already. 12. Defense rating decreased. O well. Conclusion: Now he is very different from haohmaru. His DM is nerfed but still great. Jump AB is slower, but not as slow as haohmaru. Dash B and BC has a motion of hopping and doing a quick close AB. His new close AB attacks are nice, it does a lot of damage to do close AB- 623+C - 236+CD. < Kusare Gedo > 1. Sitting A recovers slower. 2. Standing C executes slower, and its priority is weaker. 3. 6C recovers slower after it falls down, and he stays on the ground when hit. In SSZ, even though he was on the ground he would float when he got hit. 4. 3C now recovers slower(tongue trip) 5. Dash A now executes faster. 6. Dash B is now a lower attack. 7. Dash AB executes faster. 8. His call of evil spirits (236+A), once used, executes no matter what. In another words, its a skill that sacrifices your flesh to destroy the opponent's bones.(I hope you get the meaning of this good ol' ancient Asian proverb) 9. Meat lift (evasion move of 421+C) now moves forward when executed. 10. Forward jump now has increased range. 11. Grabbing range decreased. 12. Grab-Iron press, knocked down-recovery iron press bug fixed. In SSZ, knocked down Gedo can recover and do Iron Press immediately with impunity. Some say this still works in SSZS, but still left for confirmation. 13. Gedo's 2+D is now evades grabs like other character's. 14. Gedo's sliding (3+D) has an increased movement range, with invincibility time. 15. Gedo's forward hop (6+D) has increased invincibility time. 16. Close/Far Standing A, close standing B, standing C, and most of his dash attacks now have a cancel point. Conclusion: Due to the huge nerf in sitting A and standing C, he is no longer the harrasing/poking character of SSZ. Now he has to rely completely on his Iron Press throw. Many of his attacks got cancel points, so it is much easier to do iron press while standing. This is still very difficult because of the notorious command of the iron press throw. Also one must utilize the meat life and sliding to the maximum. No more bug-abusing of SSZ, so no more of that glory. His improvement in 236+A sounds nice; at least much more practical than the crap in SSZ. < Majikina Mina > 1. Overall increased delay after a ranged arrow attack. 2. Sitting kick (1+C) recovers faster.(means less delay after its executed) 3. Jump kick's attack priority has been shortened, which means she can no longer Jump backwards and press C to counter almost all Mu no Kyouchi and more. 4. Dash A is now an arrow attack. 5. Dash B has been changed similar to Rimururu's. Its priority has also been changed as a combo attack. 6. Dash Kick (or C)'s motion changed into something that looks like a dash sitting kick. 7. Dash AB no longer deflects off an opponent, which means you are more vulnerable to counterattacks if your Dash AB gets blocked. 8. It is now easier to do Dash grabs(or guard crush, whatever) with Mina, and her grab range has increased. Great, just great. 9. 4(hold)6 + A, the rapid-fire move on ground now has an increased delay after finishing the move. 10. Jump arrow attacks have been toned down. In SSZ, after a jump arrow attack, Mina was pushed back, allowing her to escape secondary persuits. Now she is much more vulnerable after attacking in mid-air. 11. Her weapon-destroying DM is now a mid attack, along with an invincibility time to go with it. -Conclusion- Due to the delays and nerf to her jump attacks, she can no longer spam arrows and win the game. Her ability to keep distance and rapid-fire is now toned down(although quite potent). However, her sitting kick, grab, and most of her dash attacks having a buff, she will be quite potent even in close-quarters although quite risky. Her hit points(defense rating) still remain the lowest in the game, and she will now need to use: 1) Carefully coordinated ranged attacks. 2) When necessary, Mina must go into close-quarters combat starting with the Ka Ji Hu chi (Aerial drill kick). 3) Due to the change in the grab-attack system, she will no longer lose 1/4 of her life due to Rage explosion- grab method. < Kazama Kazuki > 1. Increased delay after missing 623 + Button. More than SSZ, but recovers faster than SS4. 2. Increased damage of 623 + AB with 3 flames attached.(Holy $hit) 3. His DM (236 + CD) gainst full invincibility at startup, and the charging part evades lower attacks. Sounds like a counter to Mina's 2+B 4. Pressing AC while knocked down makes the flames around Kazuki attack the opponent. In SSZ, the damage was pitiful, but in SSZS the damage has been increased and you can actually combo a jump AB after lvl3 flame hits the opponent. 5. Kazuki's BC now moves forward when executed. 6. Defense Rank increased by 1. -Conclusion: Not too different, but good changes overall. With his defense rating up, he is even more a stable character. Most of his skills had their damage beefed up, but still 1-hit combo is impossible due to the Kenki guage(thank god). His DM has been improved, and it still does a lot of damage so Kazuki has more merit as he is in rage mode. Only nerf he got was the increased delay with 623+button. < Yagyu Jubei > 1. Far Standing AB executes slower. 2. Jump AB is slower. 3. Jump B is now a midium slash attack, from the light slash priority in SSZ. 4. Dash A, Dash AB is now faster. 5. Dash B is now a singular lower attack. 6. A version of Shigetsu-to (236 + A) recovers faster, but the projectile moves slower.(Like SS4) 7. 236+B executes slower but recovers faster. Its projectile speed decreased as well. 8. 623+ B or AB now executes faster. 9. 623 + B or AB now gainst full immunity at startup. 10. Eye of the Heart (Counterattack move) damage decreased by a dismal amount. - Conclusion: His projectile is now much more safer, just like SS4. However, his jump AB is slower, whereas his jump AB was one of the fastest in SSZ. Jump B is weakened as anti-air but improved as a Air-to-surface attack. Even though his counterattack damage has been nerfed, it still takes away a big chunk and you can still dream of turning the tides. Also, his 623+B and 623+AB 's invincibility timing makes it more useful as you can now actually use it as anti-air. Lots of changes, but his main strategy of projectile harass and rush-countering does not seem to have changed much. < Senryo Kyoshiro > 1. His sitting AB has a weaker priority. It was ridiculously good in SSZ. 2. his 3+C 's cancel point removed. 3. His Jump C now has a longer attack duration. Means it lasts longer. 4. Dash B now executes faster. 5. Weaponless dash C now does normal damage, instead of the AB dmg in SSZ. 6. Anti-air move of 623+A damage decreased. 7. 623+B now moves a shorter distance horizontally. 8. 623 + AB now has a delay motion at landing. 9. 421 + Slash (flaming breath) recovers a bit slower. 10. His DM, when you are hit, it changed from mid-air to ground. It means that you can use Rage Explosion to get out of it. 11. Defense Rating decreased. -Conclusion: Extremely powerful character in SSZ, nerfed a lot like Yunfei. Some characters coudln't even land a hit on Kyoshiro when he kept running away with 623+AB. Also 623+A damage has been reduced significantly. However, his main attacks of projectiles, Toad hel|, and even his flame breath with increased delay still remains useful. < Enja > 1. Far standing B, sitting B now executes faster. 2. Standing C evades grabs. 3. Jump AB now executes slower. 4. His BC recovers slower. 5. Dash A, Dash C now executes faster. 6. Dash AB's motions have changed and executes faster. This is good AND bad. 7. 236+A evades high attacks. 8. Depending on the character, the speed where a character gets knocked to the wall after being hit with 236+B is different. The angle, speed and many other factors differ from character to character. -Conclusion: Although with good 1-hit skills, he had too many drawbacks to be extremely powerful. He was really weak against turtles in SSZ, but with the general nerf in most turtling skills (i,e, tamtam standing A, Gedo's standing C and crouching A), he seems more viable. Instead of relying on BC and Jump AB, Enja must use dash attacks well. The thing is, this dash AB now lost the ability to do anti-air like SSZ. Now he slams down with his fist that looks like close AB. It's much faster, but it's sad how he lost another anti-air along with his jump AB nerfed. Only thing for Enja user to do is to practice, practice, practice, and practice, practice more and practice more than that and finally practice forever. You NEED to hit that 236+A - 236+B - 236+C combo. < Charlotte Christina Coldi > 1. Her far standing AB now has decreased priority. No more ultimate anti-air. 2. Far/close crouching AB is now weaker in priority. 3. 3+C is now a sliding attack. No more 3+C - 8+BC cheap combo. 4. Jump C changed from Heavy slash property to Medium slash property. Which means its harder to combo from Jump C. 5. Dash A now executes faster. 6. Dash B is now a mid attack and must be blocked high. 7. Dash AB is now a 2-hit attack, with increased executing speed. 8. 623+A now has reduced damage at startup. Its damage in midair remains the same, however. 9. 623+B, AB now is a singular attack with slower startup, but with full invincibility with the AB version with hefty damage. 10. Splash Punt (button masher's favorite) now executes slower. B and AB version starts with a hopping-like motion. 11. Defense rank decreased, but the bug associated with losing a ton of defense without her weapon has been fixed. -Conclusion: The iron wall of Samurai Shodown, Charlotte. Many of her main skills were nerfed, but her dash attacks have been improved. No more turtling? Power Gradation(623+Slash) feels wierd now, needs getting used to. With splash punt slower, its more easier to counter it with Sword Deflection (2146+D) and other counterattacks(i.e. eye off heart) Her basic moves that proved to be outrageous, such as her 3+C has been completely altered, while almost all of her AB attacks have been weakened in priority. Her dash attacks are easier, but her new 2-hit dash AB can be disasterous if you fail to land the second hit. She will still be a near-ranged fighter, but she will need to pressure her enemies with dash attacks or lose to jump attacks because of her weakened standing AB. Well, at least she is not the Iron curtain that used to be in all the SS series. < Kafuin Gaira > 1. His Far standing AB now executes slower. 2. Standing Kick recovers faster. 3. Jump AB duration reduced. 4. Dash A executes faster and is a combo attack. 5. Dash B is now a mid attack; must be blocked high. 6. Dash AB is now faster. 7. His aerial body drop command changed to 2+AB, so that you don't accidently do it trying to do 47896+AB Round Axis Kill grab. (used to be 8+AB) 8. Increased dash speed. 9. 47896+AB can be input time increased, which means its easier to use. 10. Round Axis Kill now has reduced damage at Rage Explosion; now it is same whether rage or normal. 11. Kah! (236+A) now has added guard damage.(Damn) 12. Big pursuit (8+BC) has a different motion, and it is easier to hit because its priority duration has been increased. -Conclusion: Increased mobility and with Dash A like SS4, now he can run around poking elbows and canceling them to different command throw/strike throws. Yay His powerful AB attacks have been nerfed while dash AB has been improved. No more GG after 2 Round Axis Kill with full spin-age(spin the lever faster and more dmg you'll do) + Rage. With increased input time with Round Axis Kill, it became more easier to use it on ground. More research needed in this part frame-wise. < Tam Tam > 1. Crouching AB no longer deflects upon block; now it is vulnerable to retaliation. 2. Crouching AB has weaker/shorter priority in the frontal edge. 3. Standing C's attack duration reduced. 4. Dahs A, Dash C, Dash AB executes faster. 5. Mura mura (236+A or B )'s projectile speed increased, but increased delay after finishing all three projectiles. 6. Dash B is now a middle attack and must be blocked high. 7. Weaponless Mura Mura is same as the one with weapon. 8. Ahau Gobble damage decreased. (Another button masher skill) -Conclusion: His 2 skills that made Gedo, Enja or Gaira impossible to touch Gedo has been nerfed; Ahau Gobble and Mura mura. With the risk added in Crouching AB, more reasons to utilize 3+C attack. A change in his main strategy of using just Crouching AB and Jump AB is necessary. Really, one could just use these two and win the match in SSZ. Lame. < Suija > 1. Standing A, Crouching A recovers slower. 2. Crouching C recovers faster but its damage is lower. 3. 3+C Sliding has a shorter reach. 4. BC now moves forward. 5. Dash B no longer deflects off the enemy when blocked. 6. 421+B and AB (aerial fire[water]ball) is slower. 7. 623+AB (aerial shield) has increased duration. 8. 41236+slash (spinning attack) has increased delay. 9. Hopping (4+D) is no longer cancelable. 10. Defense rank down. -Conclusion: Lot of pokes nerfed including A and C. It is harder to attack and run away with the waterball move, but 623+AB now last extremely long. 4+D is not cancelable, but you can still cancle from BC so no problem there. The defense rating is a pain but he's still a technical, top-tier char. < Kazama Sogetsu > 1. His Dm now gains full invincibility from start to finish. 2. Dash B is now a mid attack; must be blocked high. (Ok, im not writing this part anymore) 3. BC moves forward. 4. Decrease in Defense rating. -Conclusion: Damn, nothing changed. The changes to his crappy Dm is welcome, but other changes are near useless. Why is his dash B changed? He's not a rushing character, dammit. Well, they say no news is good news. At least he's not nerfed to obliviion. That means we can hear Gedo and Enja users cry us a river... < Hattori Hanzo > 1. His Crouching AB is slower, and got a cancel point. It can be canceled into 8+BC, and you can even cancel it without hitting anything.(sweet) 2. 3+C is slower and no longer cancelable. Slower recovery. 3. Dash B is a bit faster. 4. Dash C's reach is shorter and it is singular; it no longer has the double attack priority.(If you block this in SSZ, it hits twice) 5. A, B version of Mozu Otoshi(623+A,B ) delay swapped. A version is fast but has a big delay, while B is a bit slower but less delay. These two must be mixed in utilization. 6. Copy move (641236+A or B ) was a fountain of bugs; it has been removed. 7. Bakuen-ryu (flaming dragon; 214+slash) : A version has shorter recovery time. 8. His monkey dance (421+button) has shorter delay when appearing on ground and in air he comes out from a lower altitude. 9. His Rage time increased, fixed duration of 20 seconds just like Ukyo and Basara 10. His DM had a tiny, insignificant damage reduction. 11. Reduction in defense. -Conclusion: No more of the cheap 3+C - 8+BC pattern. However, his crouching AB is cancelable so it compensates nicely. However it got slower so its not a great counter move. Also his command throw has been tweaked and his Monkey dance (appears all over the screen depending on the button) got a lot easier to use so you really have to fight like a ninja, using disappearing acts. Also his increase in rage time is great, now Hanzo is more of a Rage character than SSZ's Mu no kyouchi character. < Nakoruru > 1. Far standing B executes faster. 2. Close standing AB now moves forward at the second hit. 3. Crouching C is slower; no more rapid fire. 4. Jump AB lasts longer. Shoot. 5. Dash A recovers slower; no more dash A - dash Grab pattern. 6. New move called "Yatro-Pok" has been added. 7. Annu Mutsube (ground sliding attack; 412+slash) has been changed. A version: low damage, fast start, no invincibilty, fast recovery B version: Similar to Annu Mutsube in SSZ. AB version: Slow execution, Full invincibility, High damage, good priority, very slow recovery. 8. Annu Mutsube cannot be braked anymore. 9. After using Annu Mutsube, her body position is higher. This means that after blocking Annu, you can use a attack that hits kind of high and still be able to hit her. In SSZ, some attacks couldn't even hit her because her stance was so low. 10. Yamube Yatro(bird fireball), Kamui Rimse(cape attack) has been changed so that if you enter the command, usually the bird will come out instead of Kamui rimse. This is to prevent unnecessary mistakes that you end up fliniging your laundary instead of launching the bird. 11. Increased damage of Rera Mutsube. 12. Ererushi Kamui Rimse is now mid attack. 13. Apehuchi Kamui Rimse is now a fast, Renmu-type attack. 14. A, B attack while hanging on the bird is faster. 15. Reduced damage of Kamui Mutsube (yes!) 16. Shorter duration of hanging on the hawk. (ha ha ha!) 17. Longer delay after you get off the hawk. (Serves ya right!) -Conclusion: Most skills associated with grabs or the hawk has been weakened, but the new Annu mutsube ultimately strengthens her. It seems that due to the added delay after getting off the hawk, nako will more likely use yatropok to land. Yatropok is weak, but very little delay if enemy blocks. No more "grabberuru" reign, but her improvements of her many underused skills along with an added move she will still be a powerful character. < Rimururu > 1. Far standing A, Far Standing AB, Crouching AB, Standing C, Dash A, Dash B's knockdown priority is changed to the backside. Not sure what this means, but does not seem real significant. 2. Far standing AB's motion is as same with that of Nakoruru's. 3. Crouching C is slower; rapid fire rate slowed. 4. Dash C has a faster cancel timing. 5. BC recovers faster. Bullsh|t. You can see why all the rimu's in SSZS vids abuse this from beggining to end. 6. Big pursuit (8+BC) damage increased, and its ability to aim has been improved. Wtf? Rimu does enough damage with it! They nerf haoh and Rasetsus, but this one does not sound right to me. 7. Conru Shiral (2+Slash in midair) executes slower, with decreased damage. 8. Conru Nonno (623+slash) now has increased delay after execution. 9. Kamui Shitoki (421+slash) now recovers slower. 10. Rupushi Kuare-Toi Toi(236+AB) projectile speed decreased. -Conclusion: Conru Shiral is slower, so one must be more careful using it, and she can no longer run away like, forever. Now it is easier to cancel Dash C into Conru Shiral. Her projectile-reflecting-high-damage-no-lag-wide-priority move, also called Kamui Shitoki, is nerfed and used less in SSZS. However, her improvement in BC, incrased priority in most of her normal slashes and increased damage of already threatning Big pursuit (8+BC). Especially since Toi Toi got slower and must be blocked low, Toi Toi mixed with dash BC is a nightmare. However, her grabbing has been nerfed (see top on why), along with increased delay after her anti-air move, Conru nonno. It does huge damage, but if it misses, Rimu's going to get cut into 17 piece after a Zetsumei-ogi. < Tokugawa Yoshitora > 1. Far Standing A execute slower. 2. Close Standing B's cancel point at first hit removed. 3. Close Standing AB is a combo attack with 1~3 strikes.(Explained below) 4. Standing C executes slower. 5. Jump AB's priority weakened. 6. Far Crouching A is a low attack. 7. Crouching B's priority weakened. 8. Crouching C recovers slower. 9. Cancel point added on the second strike of Crouching AB. 10. Dash A executes faster. 11. Dash B executes faster and is cancelable at the second hit. 12. Dash AB motion is a upward slash, like the finishing motion of Asagao (214+slash) 13. Motion of BC has been changed. 14. B version of Nadeshiko (236+slash) executes slower, and sends the opponent flying. Its priority seems to have been weakened, and evades grabs at startup. It is not deflectable with Sword deflection, but is able to counterattack with Jubei and Zankuro's counterattack moves. 15. AB version of Nadeshiko has been nerfed to hel|, the opponent recovers in midair and its priority sucks now. Useless, better forgotten to a Yoshitora user. 16. Shirayuri (623+slash) A version executes slower and recovers slower. 17. Yuugaoh(623+C ) recovers slower after missing, and no longer able to combo because it does not hit opponents that are stunned. 18. Asagaoh (214+slash) executes faster, and can be combo'ed from Close standing AB. 19. Aoi (desperation move) grants full invincibility, but increased recovery time. Increased priority in horizontal direction. 20. Yuuchoka (632146+BC) executes faster and increased damage. Yoshitora no longer moves forward after execution. Also the beginning part cannot be countered by Jubei's or Zankuro's or Sword deflection for that matter. 21. Yoshitora is no longer pushed back instantly after getting attack after having Aoi/Yuuchoka/Far Standing AB blocked. It sounds complicated but just understand that it feels much more natural now. -Conclusion- Lots of comments. As he was the number 1 abusive character in SSZ (yes, worse than Mina or anything else), he has gotten probably the most number of changes in SSZ:special. Weaker priority in Jump AB, but the focal point is his Close Standing AB. You can cancel the third hit into Asagao and Aoi. Also, his Crouching AB can be canceled at the second hit so you can either do a big pursit (8+BC), even if you are blocked you can cancel into something else to reduce the delay. His dash attacks have improved, as Dash A is the rush-starter, Dash B can be cancled into Nadeshiko A version, and Dash AB with good priority. The game-destroying Nadeshiko B version has been nerfed to oblivion, except it can be used as 1) Layout attack against a knocked-down opponent, or 2) Use it to counter normal grabs. With A version of Shirayuri nerfed, the AB version will be used much more. Yuugao has increased delay and no longer combo-able. Wtf? But his Asagao is faster and combo-able. And his DM is almost as powerful as Rasetsumaru's DM in SSZ. While most of his main attacks were nerfed, his Yuuchoka has been greatly beefed. Its damage, when hit fully, takes away about 50~60% of the life bar. So, while his play style in SSZ was pressuring the opponent with superior moves, now he must use dash attacks and close/crouching AB to the full effect. The game winner will be to complete the conditions for using Yuuchoka. <Liu Yunfei > 1. His Crouching AB is slower, and sends the opponent flying when hit. It is still possible to combo it with 236+AB. 2. Jump AB is slower, and its damage decreased. 3. 3+C is removed of cancel points. 4. Standing AB now moves forward, and increased stun when hit. 5. Dash B is now a low attack. 6. Dash C priority weakened. 7. Dash AB now has slower recovery time. 8. His 236+A or B now recovers slower. 9. The following moves fly upward in a slower speed. 214+B, aerial 214+A, aerial 214+B 10. His flying moves can be only combo-ed 3 times in a row, down from 4. 11. He can no longer triangle jump, which was really cheap where he could just fly about 200ft above the screen somewhere for the whole round. 12. His DM executes faster. 13. His defense ratings down. -Conclusion: Necessary changes. He was a bit too strong in SSZ. However, he is still strong and his play style remains pretty much the same with SSZ. A bit technical, kinda like Suija. Even though Mu no Kyouchi has been nerfed, Yunfei can still pull off alright damage with it, especially since his DM still sucks and his rage guage never fills up. <Galford De Weller> 1. Damage of courching AB has decreased (THANK GOD) 2. His BC motion has been changed. 3. Dash AB now executes faster. (crap) 4. As with Hanzo, "Shadow Copy" has been removed from the game. 5. Increased damage of "Double Mega Strike Dog", which is his Desperation move. (Or weapon flippin' whatever) 6. Changes with "Rush Dog", which I have not been able to translate. wtf. 7. Increased delay after executing Plasma Blade (hahaha) -Conclusion: Not much changes actually. The bug-maker of SSZ, Shadow Copy has been removed but other than that not much. It's still near impossible to land his DM, but if you do, it can easily take away half of opponent's health. His BC changed like Hanzo's, and it is still possible to make "Replica Dog" unblockable. <Tachibana Ukyo> 1. Removed the cancel point of Standing C 2. Crouching AB executes slower. 3. Some other change about Crouching AB which I had problem translatin. I'll try to get these things, damn. 4. Less delay on BC. 5. Dash AB now executes faster. 6. Light version of Tsubame Gaeshi(1236 + A), when blocked, now lands closer to the opponent than before. 7. Medium version of Tsubame Gaeshi, when blocked, has fastest execution, high damage, and lands even closer to the opponent. (blocked = death) 8. Heavy version of Tsubame Gaeshi, slow to execute, high damage, and does multiple hits like the SS4 Tsubame gaeshi in rage mode. After being blocked he flies vertically, landing like right in from of the opponent. Also, Ukyo coughs whether he hits or not. Now this is real double-edge. 9. Less delay on Feint apple throw. 10. You can no longer combo A and B version of Tsubame Gaeshi in Mu no Kyouchi. Thank god. -Conclusion: Tsubame Gaeshi is the mascot of Ukyo. Since medium Tsuba has the best balance between execution speed and damage, it is likely to be used often in battle. Also, you can use the Feint apple throw like in SS4, only thing sad is that you cannot cancel standing C into apple throw, which was a good pattern in SSV. Also his crouching AB has been nerfed, but his dash AB is now faster so we might have to take a closer look on which slash is to be used when and where. <Kibagami Genjuro> 1. Increased delay on distant crouching B. Also, it is harder to combo it because of its wierd changes in priority. I'll elaborate on this. 2. The damage Standing/Crouching, close/distant AB has been decreased, wtf? 3. 2C recovers slower. 4. Dash AB executes faster. 5. Ura Ouka Ayame (214+slash) now executes slower. damn. 6. His Sarensatsu (236+slash) now recovers slower when missed. 7. Hyakkisatsu (421+slash) recovers slower, and its damage has been reduced. 8. Increased recover time of Shizukujin (623+C) when missed. 9. It has become harder to link different versions of Sarensatsu. It still works if you manage to calculate the distance well. -Conclusion: Amazing nerf. Stripped down to the ground. However, a funny thing is that he is still amazingly powerful. Now he became much more difficult character than before, as his powers were near godly in SSZ. He can no longer just spam his Ura Ouka, and his crouching B has changed strangely, that if you hit the enemy with crouching B, the opponent automatcially stands up. This is hard to explain, just turn on ur emu and try out for yourself. Not a significant change despite all the difficult explanation on it. However, even with all the nerfs, he can still fight using the similar Ura Ouka/Sarensatsu pattern. <Kubikiri Basara> 1. Standing distant AB now executes faster, with faster recovery, and increased damage. Now that is some buff. 2. Crouching distant AB now has increased damage. 3. 2C now recover slower. Whew. 4. Dash A is now faster, with the motion of Dash B of SSZ. 5. Increased damage of Jump AB. Oh my god. 6. Dash B is now middle attack, and has a cancel point right before it executes. 7. Dash C became a sweeping attack. 8. Dash AB now executes faster, along with the cancel point at the end of it. 9. Sashi Ashi (not sure if it is this one, 2D in air) became a mid attack. 10. The damage of Kage Ide(623+C) has increased. 11. Execution of Kage Ide grants invincibility against throws. 12. Increased dash speed. 13. The invincibility time on Basara's dash is faster. This means that when Basara dashes, Basara will turn invincible faster than SSZ. For those who don't know, Basara is invincible when he dashes. 14. Removed Kage Damashi: Kouten, replaced with motion of feint Kage Sui. In another words, 421+BD has changed drastically. 15. 421+BC has also changed into fake dash. 16. Nue Dama(236+C) damage increased. 17. Nue Dama can ble canceled into one of the Kage Damashi moves. -Conclusion: While everyone else is getting nerfed to that bad place, Basara is somehow beefed up to the max. Considering his fun factor of play, looks like we might see a great increase in Basara player population. Almost all of his AB's are buffed, and his jump AB was one of the best since SS4 already. With his Dash C being low, and Dash B being mid, Basara now has some great Dash attack patterns. Also his Shadow feints got faster and got more practical fakes, and could be a great addition to his great arsenal. The only nerf is perhaps his crouching C(2C), but his strengths are more than enough to cover that. Perhaps Basara might be able to take off the "weakest character of the series" flag. <Rera> 1. Decreased Walking/Running speed. 2. Increased reach of Standing Distant B. However, cancel point removed. 3. Second strike of near standing AB now moves forward. 4. 2C recovers slower. 5. Jump C's attack priority lasts longer. 6. Dash B is a mid attack. 7. On Shikuru(the wolf, guys), Rera's standin A and B's cancel points have been pushed back. Which means the cancel point comes out much later. 8. On Shikuru, Rera's crouching A and B recovers slower. Also the priority is Medium slash. 9. Her Desperation Move now executes slower. 10. On Shikuru, her back dash after running past the opponent works correctly. 11. Increased defense. -Conclusion: Decreased speed, but not that significant. Close AB & crouching C is like that of Nakoruru's. One of the main changes is her attacks on Shikuru. Her A and B on Shikuru no longer cancels into her DM, and other nerfs to her crouching A and B forces Rera users to be more careful while on Shikuru. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the bumpage, now it is finished. Anything I can clear up I will, just post a question as a reply. Damn, this post IS too long, lol.. Thanks for the support, guys

I don't see what's so strange about it. Many programs use Microsoft Installer files (.msi) to handle the installing nowadays. uh... because with this CCD, the setup.exe doesn't work?

I hate these waiting games

Yeah, I just confirmed it. They are going to add the Zetsumei-ogi. Perhaps this petition worked? Link to the petition.

Just the AES, I assume you're saying?

Nope, CCD That's why its kinda wierd. The setup cannot be done with the regular setup.exe file, rather it has to be done with a seperate installation file(probably made by the team) with a msi extension.

That's his command throw. f,b,d,u+C. Really tough to pull off from a standing position. Remember that if you do not go through the neutral position of 5, the move will not execute. That's if you're using a lever/stick

I got it, but its installation process takes over 10 minutes(I thought my system crashed at first), and the cofig file is messed up so that you can't customize some keys because the configuration window is broken(some parts of the menu cut off).

the move is called Gedo's Iron Press Throw(there are other translations for it) The move can be executed by 64258+C. It's really hard to pull it off because it requires you to pull the lever upward, so you have to either jump and use the command or cancel in from something else. The move kills every character in the game in 3 shots(ignores defense rating), but it has a long miss motion and is hard to pull off. In the video JEO uses sliding - (cancle) - iron press, and he even uses guard-(cancel during the delay in blocking motion)-iron press.

I'll start up a new thread with the full information

I downloaded a few, but all of them were just SSZ.... no special.

Boy...that was boring... Watching tournament videos is like watching two geriatrics jerking each other off. What makes you say that?

rofl, good one

I have only seen ONE video where that Gedo player loses.. aginst a Rimururu, who continuously jumped and did Conru Shiral (those ice platforms in midair) over and over, except poking with Dash C.... the link's dead now so I can't post it, but anyhow that Gedo player is not human