The Best Wrestler in a Fighting Game

[Wizard]

 

 

Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha...no

Watch some real Lucha.

 

I already know how it is. SNK don't. Nothing you can say can convince me that they didn't completely miss-hit with this character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

COUNTER-RETORT

 

Yes, SNK does know. The character designer for him was a big Lucha Libre wrestling fan and he was specifically made for the 2nd most popular Neo-Geo spot (South America). I'm not convincing you, even though you are wrong.

Edited October 5, 2004 by K`dash

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

 

 

Aha ha ha ha ha ha ha...no

Watch some real Lucha.

 

I already know how it is. SNK don't. Nothing you can say can convince me that they didn't completely miss-hit with this character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

COUNTER-RETORT

 

Yes, SNK does know. The character designer for him was a big Lucha Libre wrestling fan and he was specifically made for the 2nd most popular Neo-Geo spot (South America). I'm not convincing you, even though you are wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

So the character designer is a fan of three of the moves commonly performed by these types of wrestlers.... In fact you should make that less, because dropkicks are performed by all, a cross body press is nothing special, a somersault is just grasping at straws, a back-off move (cyclone kick and punch) is a daft and pointless inclusion. I bet Tekken's King has far more Lucha Libre in him than this so-called effort.

Edited October 5, 2004 by shin_nihon_kikaku

[Wizard]

This character was designed with one of NEOGEO's major markets in mind, South America.

He's a stout, masked wrestler who uses tricky body slam moves.

These three points form the major concept behind the creation of Ramon.

Ramon's designer at the time loved pro-wrestling fighting moves, and we remember him carefully studying these. The fruits of this labor crystallized themselves in the Lucha Dolore known as Ramon.

With his use of "Lucha Libre" moves and not those of traditional "pro-wrestling," we hope you can enjoy experiencing the attention to detail, intensity, and enthusiasm of Ramon's designer at that time.

 

Seriously, do some research on the chracaters insted of b!tching how "bad" they're designed in your view.

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

This character was designed with one of NEOGEO's major markets in mind, South America.

He's a stout, masked wrestler who uses tricky body slam moves.

These three points form the major concept behind the creation of Ramon.

Ramon's designer at the time loved pro-wrestling fighting moves, and we remember him carefully studying these. The fruits of this labor crystallized themselves in the Lucha Dolore known as Ramon.

With his use of "Lucha Libre" moves and not those of traditional "pro-wrestling," we hope you can enjoy experiencing the attention to detail, intensity, and enthusiasm of Ramon's designer at that time.

 

Seriously, do some research on the chracaters insted of b!tching how "bad" they're designed in your view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What does this prove? We all know what was being aimed for. Only some of us see how pathetically it was executed in the finished product. Do some research? Is that advice for SNK's designers in future?

Edited October 5, 2004 by shin_nihon_kikaku

[Wizard]

Do better your self then.

 

Cuz thats what I say to people who whine about something all the time <INSERT INPUT LAG JOKE HERE>. Seriously, do something, all you do is whine about why this character looks like a little child blah blah blah.

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

Do better your self then.

 

Cuz thats what I say to people who whine about something all the time <INSERT INPUT LAG JOKE HERE>. Seriously, do something, all you do is whine about why this character looks like a little child blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I AM doing better myself, that's the whole frickin' point. Do you not remember I'm a designer myself? That's why I get p!ssed and point out stuff like this.

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

Do better your self then.

 

Cuz thats what I say to people who whine about something all the time <INSERT INPUT LAG JOKE HERE>. Seriously, do something, all you do is whine about why this character looks like a little child blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It posted the same thing twice. Huh?

Edited October 5, 2004 by shin_nihon_kikaku

[Wizard]

Do better your self then.

 

Cuz thats what I say to people who whine about something all the time <INSERT INPUT LAG JOKE HERE>. Seriously, do something, all you do is whine about why this character looks like a little child blah blah blah.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I AM doing better myself, that's the whole frickin' point. Do you not remember I'm a designer myself? That's why I get p!ssed and point out stuff like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know you are one, but what have you done that has gotten any attention yet at all? Nothing. Exactly my point, wheres the proof to back that up. Nowhere. As of right now until you do something constructive with that designer status your nothing.

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

- I know you are one, but what have you done that has gotten any attention yet at all? Nothing. Exactly my point, wheres the proof to back that up. Nowhere. As of right now until you do something constructive with that designer status your nothing.

 

 

I've done plenty. Just because you haven't seen it, and therefore can't comprehend the significance of what I'm up to, don't think that it doesn't exist. What were SFII's designers doing before you'd heard of it, before anyone had been shown the game? Something constructive.

Edited October 5, 2004 by shin_nihon_kikaku

[Agozer]

Nice going you two.

[Wizard]

I was 4 at the time SFII came out kthx.

 

SFII started off development in roughly around the end of 1988 and wasn't released until `91. The main reason it didn't come out early was because they felt the character roster was pale. Most of the designers either were writers, freelance or otherwise or artists (AKIMAN and Eiji for example were just guys drawing before they got picked up by their respected companies) or others from other Capcom divisions.

[shin_nihon_kikaku]

King was a guy in tights with an animal mask.  I can't think of any off the top of my head (but I'm not a big wrestling fan), but that's not exactly groundbreaking enough to attribute Tizoc's design to him as well.  Tizoc has much more character, IMO.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It took me a long time to reply to this, I've been wanting to reply but I just couldn’t be bothered to type it up.

 

Anyway, the whole history of this is rather convoluted but the fact remains, Tizoc is nothing BUT a copy of King.

 

Namco based the King character on a few things, most obviously on the legendary Japanese wrestler, Satoru Sayama, whose character was called 'Tiger Mask'. King is a straight up reference to this wrestler.

 

Sayama, in turn, had based his wrestling creation on a Japanese wrestling themed cartoon by Ikki Kajiwara titled (appropriately enough) Tiger Mask. The character created for this cartoon was Kajiwara’s (genius) take on the whole phenomenon of ‘masked wrestlers’. Although I think there’s a Japanese legend/myth accountable somewhere along the way.

 

Believe it or not, Capcom’s original character design concept for Blanka was a muscular shirtless man with a Tiger’s face. I believe this was based on the same Japanese legend (of a half man/half tiger) that spawned the garbage MK character Kintaro.

 

 

Tizoc looks more like the stylised cartoon creation in Tiger Mask (with the massive muscles and flowing feathers (in the cartoon’s case, a cape). Whereas King looks more like Sayama’s version. (as he would, being in a semi realistic game and as Sayama’s wrestler was the sole inspiration for King, not the cartoon)

 

Tizoc might look cool, compared to the vaguely humorous looking King (what with the choice of animal for the mask he wears being better overall) but it still doesn’t change the fact that he's a poorly disguised rip-off and that you can’t get much more of an idea than King, whether he himself was blatantly influenced by something else or not. King was still the ‘inspiration’ for the ‘not very inspired’ Tizoc.

Edited October 5, 2004 by shin_nihon_kikaku

[veristic]

Does Anakaris count? I'd say it's a draw between Anakaris and Tizoc.

[Gryph]

Does Anakaris count?  I'd say it's a draw between Anakaris and Tizoc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think Darkstalker's characters defy normal classifications.

[Daeval]

King was a guy in tights with an animal mask.  I can't think of any off the top of my head (but I'm not a big wrestling fan), but that's not exactly groundbreaking enough to attribute Tizoc's design to him as well.  Tizoc has much more character, IMO.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It took me a long time to reply to this, I've been wanting to reply but I just couldn’t be bothered to type it up.

 

Anyway, the whole history of this is rather convoluted but the fact remains, Tizoc is nothing BUT a copy of King.

 

Namco based the King character on a few things, most obviously on the legendary Japanese wrestler, Satoru Sayama, whose character was called 'Tiger Mask'. King is a straight up reference to this wrestler.

 

Sayama, in turn, had based his wrestling creation on a Japanese wrestling themed cartoon by Ikki Kajiwara titled (appropriately enough) Tiger Mask. The character created for this cartoon was Kajiwara’s (genius) take on the whole phenomenon of ‘masked wrestlers’. Although I think there’s a Japanese legend/myth accountable somewhere along the way.

 

Believe it or not, Capcom’s original character design concept for Blanka was a muscular shirtless man with a Tiger’s face. I believe this was based on the same Japanese legend (of a half man/half tiger) that spawned the garbage MK character Kintaro.

 

 

Tizoc looks more like the stylised cartoon creation in Tiger Mask (with the massive muscles and flowing feathers (in the cartoon’s case, a cape). Whereas King looks more like Sayama’s version. (as he would, being in a semi realistic game and as Sayama’s wrestler was the sole inspiration for King, not the cartoon)

 

Tizoc might look cool, compared to the vaguely humorous looking King (what with the choice of animal for the mask he wears being better overall) but it still doesn’t change the fact that he's a poorly disguised rip-off and that you can’t get much more of an idea than King, whether he himself was blatantly influenced by something else or not. King was still the ‘inspiration’ for the ‘not very inspired’ Tizoc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You realize you just totally backed me up, right?

 

My whole point was that King was not original enough to get credit for Tizoc's design. What you've said illustrates this perfectly:

 

King was based very heavily on an existing character. Since the "masked wrestler" existed before King, in the form of "Tiger Mask" and "the whole phenomenon of ‘masked wrestlers’," Tizoc's design should rightfully be attributed to THEM, the original Masked Wrestlers. NOT to King, who was just borrowed from those earlier designs.

 

 

BTW, out of curiosity, who do you work for as a designer? And what schooling/experience helped you land the job? I'm working towards that myself and am interested in how others broke into the rather difficult field..