FBL 1.4 pixel perfect ini discussion

[PhilExile]

I think this is the problem, but lets wait to hear back from Cos - he is the definitive expert in pixel perfection.

 

I'll try to test later today as well, but I have work to do now.

 

Thanks again!

 

If the problem is definitely the AspectCorrect line in the game ini being set to 13 then that should be an easy fix. So basically you're saying that if I can get FBL to add that line to a 1.3 ini with the correct value of 0 then your problems are solved?

[+ T +]

I took a look at this earlier and the ini problem is an easy fix... or, that is to say, would have been an easy fix.

 

Basically I should have put the AspectCorrect line at the bottom of the ini file. That way it would not mess up other settings if you tried to use an ini that didn't have it. Of course I could easily move AspectCorrect to the bottom of the ini in FBL1.5 and your 1.3 inis would work fine, but this will then mess up other settings in any game that has an existing 1.4 ini.

 

So I face a bit of a dilemma. I should have done this right from the start, but, since I didn't, I can't see a way of going back without screwing up a whole lot of inis for a whole lot of people (which obviously I'm not going to do). Apologies for the oversight, I am still giving it some thought.

[PhilExile]

Well, I can suggest two things:

 

1. Make the fix and put at the start of the read me file that you need to delete any INIs from the ini/emulation directory. This will avoid any hiccups between the revisions.

 

2. You could make two XBEs - one for users upgrading from 1.3 INIs and one for 1.4 users. This could get confusing though.

 

Thanks again, T!

 

 

I took a look at this earlier and the ini problem is an easy fix... or, that is to say, would have been an easy fix.

 

Basically I should have put the AspectCorrect line at the bottom of the ini file. That way it would not mess up other settings if you tried to use an ini that didn't have it. Of course I could easily move AspectCorrect to the bottom of the ini in FBL1.5 and your 1.3 inis would work fine, but this will then mess up other settings in any game that has an existing 1.4 ini.

 

So I face a bit of a dilemma. I should have done this right from the start, but, since I didn't, I can't see a way of going back without screwing up a whole lot of inis for a whole lot of people (which obviously I'm not going to do). Apologies for the oversight, I am still giving it some thought.

[Blinky]

Nice to see that there is still some xbox development going on...

 

I used to play a lot of FBL and Coinops some time ago, but then switched to MAME on a PC, only because on the PC there is a way of outputing non interlaced 15khz video resolutions to a standard CRT Scart-TV. The picture quality is so much better, and its "pixel perfect" by nature...(Soft15kHz)

 

I see that there is alot of "pixel perfect" stuff going on here. Maybe there is a way to output non interlaced resolutions on a xbox as well, that would make a lot of pixel perfect stuff obsolete. Have a look at http://forums.xbox-scene.com/lofiversion/i...hp/t662368.html

 

I would love to switch back to xbox FBL / Coinops because I totally miss the perfect user interfaces. They were just perfect compared to the PC stuff.

But the playing experience is so much better on a PC due to the low res non interlaced video output....

 

keep up the good work....

[PhilExile]

There is - see the last post from that thread you posted:

 

Since it doesn't look like we'll be getting 240p output from the emulators in question anytime soon, I figured I would post this article:

 

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

 

The article explains that you can get an Extron Emotia scan converter to force the Xbox to output 240p.

 

1. You do need to either convert the Xbox's component signal to VGA or just get the Frosty VGA cables.

 

2. You then output the Xbox using VGA to the Emotia and select 480p output.

 

3. Flip a switch on the Emotia to "non-interlaced" and, boom, the flickering is gone and you now have scanlines, 240p.

 

This works great and Emotias are generally cheap, ranging from $50-$60 for the basic model and $120 for the new, "Super" version. Each does the same thing though, so try to get the cheaper one if you can.

 

Many thanks to Tobias!!!

 

Nice to see that there is still some xbox development going on...

 

I used to play a lot of FBL and Coinops some time ago, but then switched to MAME on a PC, only because on the PC there is a way of outputing non interlaced 15khz video resolutions to a standard CRT Scart-TV. The picture quality is so much better, and its "pixel perfect" by nature...(Soft15kHz)

 

I see that there is alot of "pixel perfect" stuff going on here. Maybe there is a way to output non interlaced resolutions on a xbox as well, that would make a lot of pixel perfect stuff obsolete. Have a look at http://forums.xbox-scene.com/lofiversion/i...hp/t662368.html

 

I would love to switch back to xbox FBL / Coinops because I totally miss the perfect user interfaces. They were just perfect compared to the PC stuff.

But the playing experience is so much better on a PC due to the low res non interlaced video output....

 

keep up the good work....

[PhilExile]

Hey Cos,

 

I just tried these same two games. See below for the results:

 

------------

 

ALEX KIDD (Set 2)

 

I launched this in FBL 1.3 to double-check my screen size. I noticed that the horizontal was very slightly off - probably due to my own error. For people that wonder, to check the horizontal screen size, you go into the screen setup screen and move the game screen back-and-forth from right to left with the left thumbstick. If you notice 'waves' appearing in the image as you do this, the horizontal size is either too big or small. By eliminating these waves, it stops distortions from appearing in-game - like a ship flying through an invisible line that offsets its pixels.

 

Anyway, I fixed it, copied it to my PC, added the AspectCorrect line of code, and copied it over the FBL 1.4. Unfortunately when I opened the game in 1.4, I noticed the horizontal screen distortion 'waves' had returned. However, adding the line of code definitely had a positive effect. Without it, the screen size would have been totally off - including the vertical size - which was not the case.

 

MUTATION NATION

 

I launched this in FBL 1.3 to double-check my screen size and it was perfect. I did the same to the INI as with ALEX KIDD and opened it in FBL 1.4. Again, the horizontal was very slightly off and the waves were there.

 

Cos, I think that WILLOW - a 16:9 widescreen game - imported 100% perfect because you already 'crushed' the horizontal pixels to fit the 4:3 space. If the size of the horizontal screen is slightly off, it probably doesn't show up as prominently as in games like ALEX KIDD and MUTATION NATION, which are both native 4:3.

 

------------

 

Basically, I think we solved the larger half of a two-part problem. I'm going to play around with FBL 1.4 skin INI and some other stuff to see if that has any sort of effect - even though I know its not supposed to. You never know.

 

Update: OK - I tried a few things, including altering the INI to match 1.3 values, which Gilou9999 suggested. Nothing seemed to work.

 

Its my guess that something is different in the code that controls how the horizontal size is calculated. My first thought was that it was due to the rotation correction that Neo found, but I loading his build up and it didn't have the screen issue we are seeing in 1.4.

 

T, is there anything that you can think of at this point? It would have something to do with the horizontal size or position of the game screen. The vertical doesn't seem to be affected. Considering how small the variation is - I'm guessing it may be something that is only slightly different.

 

Thank you again!

 

 

I am completely lost on this...

Tried again to import INIs and the screen gets messed up.

 

I did pick my DINO.INI from FBL 1.3 and added the line

"AspectCorrect=0" and the game screen was imported 100% perfect

inside FBL 1.4.

 

But I tried same trick with Alex Kidd and Mutation Nation (NeoGeo)

and got no results.

 

Ouch...

I don't know what more to do.

 

=/

Edited August 15, 2011 by PhilExile

[+ T +]

You should add the extra line to the ini before adjusting the screen, not after.

[PhilExile]

Hi T, yes, that is what I did.

 

In 1.3, if the size is perfect - meaning no distortions, then in 1.4 its very slightly off horizontally - not vertically. The horizontal size of the screen is either too small or large, but by a very minute amount.

 

I assume the size values in the INI interact with 'base' screen size and position values in FBL. Is it possible that these change very slightly between the two versions?

 

 

 

You should add the extra line to the ini before adjusting the screen, not after.

Edited August 15, 2011 by PhilExile

[Cospefogo]

Hi T, yes, that is what I did.

 

In 1.3, if the size is perfect - meaning no distortions, then in 1.4 its very slightly off horizontally - not vertically. The horizontal size of the screen is either too small or large, but by a very minute amount.

 

I assume the size values in the INI interact with 'base' screen size and position values in FBL. Is it possible that these change very slightly between the two versions?

 

You should add the extra line to the ini before adjusting the screen, not after.

 

 

Yes yes,

 

Phil, right on the spot.

This is exactly my problem.

Absolutely the same results as me.

 

I will be away for a couple of days now.

I have a lot of work to do.

 

But in the end, if the problem could not be found/fixed,

I will try to manually export and correct all my INI somehow.

I have one idea already...

 

PS. Phil --- Please remember that NeoGeo has TWO distinct INIs!

One for 320x224 and other for 304x224!

Not all have same width!

 

Example:

 

304 pixels in width:

http://maws.mameworld.info/img/ps/snap/mslug.png

 

320 pixels in width:

http://maws.mameworld.info/img/ps/snap/samsho.png

 

I hate this issue...

Cospefogo.

[PhilExile]

But in the end, if the problem could not be found/fixed,

I will try to manually export and correct all my INI somehow.

I have one idea already...

 

What's the idea? Please share!

 

PS. Phil --- Please remember that NeoGeo has TWO distinct INIs!

One for 320x224 and other for 304x224!

Not all have same width!

 

Yes, I found that out this past winter. Usually, MAWS list them as all the same size unfortunately. Thank you for the heads up though.

 

T, would it be hard to add the functionality to be able to adjust the screen size by using the D-Pad? It would be great if one 'click' to the left, right, up, down would equal the smallest integer change of screen size. Its really hard - and usually takes a lot of trial and error, to set the size exactly right with the right thumbstick.

 

Thanks again

Edited August 15, 2011 by PhilExile

[+ T +]

T, would it be hard to add the functionality to be able to adjust the screen size by using the D-Pad? It would be great if one 'click' to the left, right, up, down would equal the smallest integer change of screen size. Its really hard - and usually takes a lot of trial and error, to set the size exactly right with the right thumbstick.

It's possible, but you need 2 sticks to resize the screen and you only have one d-pad so how would that work? The other thing with FBL's screen sizing system, as you may or may not have discovered yet, is that once you have a pixel perfect screen size set, if you even move the screen (without resizing) you will still introduce slight distortion and will have to resize again. So you would need the same precision on both the move and resize controls.

[Cospefogo]

T, would it be hard to add the functionality to be able to adjust the screen size by using the D-Pad? It would be great if one 'click' to the left, right, up, down would equal the smallest integer change of screen size. Its really hard - and usually takes a lot of trial and error, to set the size exactly right with the right thumbstick.

It's possible, but you need 2 sticks to resize the screen and you only have one d-pad so how would that work? The other thing with FBL's screen sizing system, as you may or may not have discovered yet, is that once you have a pixel perfect screen size set, if you even move the screen (without resizing) you will still introduce slight distortion and will have to resize again. So you would need the same precision on both the move and resize controls.

 

Hej hoj!

 

Suggestion:

D-Pad alone, increases and decreases screen size.

Hold A, or X, or Y, or both triggers + D-Pad, moves the offset X and Y.

 

And yes yes yes...

We areaware of the slight ditortion/blur that could happen when you move around a screen in pixel perfect set.

I even benefit of it sometimes (on non rotated vertical games) to find the best sharp spot!

 

Thanks, +T+!

+C+

 

EDIT: I dropped a mug of coffee+milk in my apple aluminun keyboard few weeks ago...

Now the space bar is not registering correctly. Sorry for my "glued on each other" words sometimes.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Cospefogo

[PhilExile]

It's possible, but you need 2 sticks to resize the screen and you only have one d-pad so how would that work?

 

I'd like the two thumbstick's functionality to remain the same. We'd just like to add screen sizing to the D-Pad for precise changes. Basically, it would serve the same purpose as the right thumbstick, but one increment would equal one click in whatever direction.

 

The other thing with FBL's screen sizing system, as you may or may not have discovered yet, is that once you have a pixel perfect screen size set, if you even move the screen (without resizing) you will still introduce slight distortion and will have to resize again.

 

This hasn't been my experience. Basically this is how I find the perfect pixel proportion:

 

1. After I launch the game, I find the correct vertical size. This is fairly easy with scanlines because the pixels will 'lock' into place and become very sharp. If they aren't 'locked' the entire game screen appears blurry. This is most noticeable in type.

 

2. Then I re-size the horizontal. When resizing, you can see multiple lines (or waves) in the image as you are changing the horizontal size. It starts off with a lot of lines throughout, but as you get closer to the correct value, these lines begin to lessen in number until they are eliminated.

 

3. I then move the screen's position with the left thumbstick left to right to see if any distortions appear. If it is correct, there will be none and the screen will move smoothly across the monitor.

 

So you would need the same precision on both the move and resize controls.

 

I think we would just need it on the resize, the move doesn't seem to affect things in my experience. I'm going to try to make a high resolution video of this tonight or tomorrow to upload for people to see.

 

Thanks again!

[PhilExile]

Suggestion:

D-Pad alone, increases and decreases screen size.

Hold A, or X, or Y, or both triggers + D-Pad, moves the offset X and Y.

 

Holding both triggers is a great idea. I never thought of that.

 

And yes yes yes...

We areaware of the slight ditortion/blur that could happen when you move around a screen in pixel perfect set.

I even benefit of it sometimes (on non rotated vertical games) to find the best sharp spot!

 

Really? I never noticed this. I always moved the game screen around to see if any distortion happened. I'm going to try to make a really high res video of this ASAP.

 

Thanks all

[Cospefogo]

Really? I never noticed this. I always moved the game screen around to see if any distortion happened. I'm going to try to make a really high res video of this ASAP.

 

Thanks all

 

 

Yes!

 

I use to pay attention on this stuff while on vertical NON rotated games.

Also, on all games you can get darker or lighter scanlines (if you have the filter ON, of course)

when you move the screen around on a MININUM INTEGER at time.

 

I have noticed 3 different scanlines, let's say, "bright models".

=)

 

C.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Cospefogo