FBL 1.4 pixel perfect ini discussion

[+ T +]

I've started a new topic for this discussion since it's starting to take over the FBL1.4 thread somewhat and as far as I can tell it's reached the stage where there's nothing that needs to be done on the emulator side of things. Of course I'll still help and contribute to the discussion but I don't want new users with other questions and issues to get intimidated by all the values inis being thrown around in the main thread. It also makes it easier for you guys to keep all this discussion in one place.

 

So please post anything pixel perfect related here.

[PhilExile]

Yeah, I'm probably not the best person to review these. I still don't know how resizing a screen to be 'pixel perfect' could be anything other than 1x/2x/3x/4x/anyotherInteger * the emulated game's actual output resolution.

 

OK, no problem - for some reason, I thought you had the PP sickness.

 

In 480P, no amount of fiddling with the 10x11 and Widescreen Fix options made the few games I tried show no scaling artifacts -AND- show the entire screen.

 

Right, that's the trade-off. If your CRT overscales the picture a lot, you will loss some information. The ideal is to either get a video production monitor (Sony PVMs are great), which will allow you to adjust overscan or use an LCD in 480P mode.

 

I don't know if it's my setup or how the .INIs are, but the first example I ran into was 1941, where yes, the scrolling was nice and smooth with no artifacts, but the top (score area) and bottom (VITAL/lives/ROLL area) of the game's screen were way past the edges of the visible area of the monitor itself.

 

1941 is a vertical game and I set the PP to work with the SCREEN ROTATION set to DISABLED. On my monitor it works fine with the WIDESCREEN FIX: ON. If you still have some overscan, turn on the 10x11 pixel ration fix - that should cure it. However, if you turned the WIDESCREEN mode on/off it may have goofed up the INI I sent you and you'll have to re-copy it over.

 

Since I'm not playing on a 4:3/3:4 CRT, but on a 16:10 VGA monitor, I just end up running everything in 720P and scaling w/correct aspect, and I just deal with the alternating-size pixels caused by the scaling :/

 

OK, you might as well - especially if it doesn't bother you. You can use some of the filters to hide this type of stuff - like billinear. Just out of curiosity, what model monitor do you have?

 

Thanks again for testing.

Edited August 13, 2011 by PhilExile

[JLsoft]

At the moment, I'm using just a cheap 19" Acer LCD (switching between the XB and this comp via an X2VGA+)

 

 

As for filters/etc, oof, I hate 'em...I'm all about hardware Point + no software filter, and no scanlines. Back when I -was- using 480i, about 90% of my posts on the X-S forum were trying to get people to adopt/embrace adding the option for changing the Flicker Filter/soften filter in different emus/etc after 'FlickerFucker' came out and I saw how sexy games could be in composite/S-Video 480i

 

 

 

It's weird...while I'm against any smoothing filters/scanlines/etc personally (...back when I was using these older consoles/computers 'for real', I always wanted the sharpest display possible at the time), I -also- like some of the convincingly good aperture/RGB dot/etc filters that are out there for MAME/FBA. Another filter I also dig is the 'NTSC' filter that's in NestopiaX and MadMab's update of AtariXLbox...although I don't think I'd seriously play through something for a long time with it on.

 

 

 

 

 

With the HLSL stuff recently added to the PC version of MAME though, I'm already seeing a lot of gross screenshots from people who think that arcade monitors were almost fisheye/peephole shaped and had darkened scanlines thicker than the visible rows of pixels.

[Cospefogo]

Going back to INI importing:

 

My FBL 1.4 imports each game INI as it should be,

but at least here in my end, the games start up with

a very very very small distortion, breaking the pixel

perfect from 1.3.

 

We can even change the subject --- the problem is

not pixel perfect, the problem, at least for me, is that

FBL 1.4 is not reading the screen size values correclty.

 

Dear +T+, did you tried to run my DINO.INI in a FBL 1.3,

and then in FBL 1.4 to make the comparison?

 

You can get any other INIs for CPS1 and CPS2 games from

the ZIP I shared yesterday to make more comparisons.

I am curious if you could get the same result as mine.

 

One thing that could help the pixel perfect purists in their

insane screen adjustments, could be to set up the directional

digital pad to also move/stretch/squeeze the screen.

 

Why I could ask for that? Simple...

 

I use solely a HORI Arcade Stick and a oficial Sega Saturn pad

in my Xbox. Any time I need to mess up with screen configs,

I need to go to the basement, open a old rusty chest full of

abandoned gadgets, and take the dust from my Xbox S-Controller.

 

Maybe we could have some stuff like:

 

- Directional pad alone resizes the screen, to up, down, left, right.

- And if you hold A and press the directional pad, you move the screen on the offset X and Y.

....................wonderful for arcade cabinet owner and haters of the most infamous controller

in the face of the third planet from the solar solar system, the Xbox MS S-Controller.

 

 

* * *

 

PhilCo my man,

 

Definetely I am not having good moments with 480p. Some INIs I tried from you

zip gave me images too wide, with a lot of overscan, like for example Armored Warriors

and Alex Kidd. Then, still under 480p, I tried to re-adjust them, and there is no way

to find the perfect width spot in a CPS game. When I reach a size/screen usage

similar to the values I found out in 720p the screen gets ALMOST perfect. Almost almost...

But not AS IN 720p, clear crystal and sharp like the edge of the sword of Agenor, the

blind Ninja from Nigeria. So, I did return to 720p...

 

PS. I have not tried all your INIs. I went right after the CPS1/CPS2 ones, the most

important for me due to their wide native aspect ratio.

 

And you, did you tried to open DINO.INI in your FBL 1.3?

The link is on the previous page.

 

And I am decided, at least by now, to keep both versions.

In FBL 1.3 I will play most of the games, since they are already Pixel Perfect here.

And in FBL 1.4 I will play all rotated vertical games (Now the ghostly bug is gone) and I will

play newer games/drivers that +T+ and his Band of Brothers could add eventually.

 

Hej! GunSmoke is PERFECT now!

Vendetta too!

But I can't run Osmann... My roms id bad.

 

Cospefogo.

[PhilExile]

At the moment, I'm using just a cheap 19" Acer LCD (switching between the XB and this comp via an X2VGA+)

 

Time to upgrade. I would setup an alert for SONY PVM on your local Craigslist. I got one for free that way and another for $100. Call post-production houses or advertising agencies that have video editing suites too. Sometimes they have stuff they are looking to get rid of.

 

As for filters/etc, oof, I hate 'em...I'm all about hardware Point + no software filter, and no scanlines. Back when I -was- using 480i, about 90% of my posts on the X-S forum were trying to get people to adopt/embrace adding the option for changing the Flicker Filter/soften filter in different emus/etc after 'FlickerFucker' came out and I saw how sexy games could be in composite/S-Video 480i

 

I hate them too, but billinear is the best if you need to get rid of screen size distortions - it does hide it very well.

 

Another filter I also dig is the 'NTSC' filter that's in NestopiaX and MadMab's update of AtariXLbox...although I don't think I'd seriously play through something for a long time with it on.

 

Ya, that filters the most 'realistic' I've seen, however, its not 100%. I have a real NES hooked up to PVM via composite and it definitely doesn't look much like the filter in Nestopia - or as bad. It really depended on your TV and connecting cord too.

 

With the HLSL stuff recently added to the PC version of MAME though, I'm already seeing a lot of gross screenshots from people who think that arcade monitors were almost fisheye/peephole shaped and had darkened scanlines thicker than the visible rows of pixels.

 

I'm not familiar - could you post a link?

[PhilExile]

One thing that could help the pixel perfect purists in their

insane screen adjustments, could be to set up the directional

digital pad to also move/stretch/squeeze the screen.

 

- Directional pad alone resizes the screen, to up, down, left, right.

- And if you hold A and press the directional pad, you move the screen on the offset X and Y.

....................wonderful for arcade cabinet owner and haters of the most infamous controller

in the face of the third planet from the solar solar system, the Xbox MS S-Controller.

 

 

This would be great! T, is that possible?

 

 

Definetely I am not having good moments with 480p. Some INIs I tried from you

zip gave me images too wide, with a lot of overscan, like for example Armored Warriors

and Alex Kidd. Then, still under 480p, I tried to re-adjust them, and there is no way

to find the perfect width spot in a CPS game.

 

There is a bug in FBL that doesn't allow a preconfigured 10x11 INI to be implemented. T is looking into fixing it for the 1.5 release. ALEX KIDD is one such game. Just go into video settings and turn off 10x11, then turn it back on. It should fix the overscan issue you are having.

 

PS. I have not tried all your INIs. I went right after the CPS1/CPS2 ones, the most

important for me due to their wide native aspect ratio.

 

Don't, there are a lot of errors, which I discovered this morning. I'm combing through them now and fixing them, so I'll resend shortly.

 

And you, did you tried to open DINO.INI in your FBL 1.3?

The link is on the previous page.

 

Not yet, but I will!

 

Talk soon

[PhilExile]

OK - after playing around with this some more and then going BACK to 1.3, I have to agree with Cospefogo - there is definitely something affecting these screen values.

 

I opened PROGEAR in 1.3 with no problems - both the horizontal and vertical sizes were perfect with no distortion. I opened this same game in 1.4, using the same INI - immediately, the game was too low, causing it to be off-register with the scanlines. I could not get the horizontal size to 'lock' without having distortion.

 

T, could you please take a look at the screen sizing code that you changed again? I've spent, literally, an entire day working on this, and I'm 99% sure there is something wrong.

 

Thank you again for your help.

[PhilExile]

Hey T,

 

I was just comparing two INIs for the game, EIGHTMAN, which is listed at MAWS as 320x240 - standard for NeoGeo, though not 100% consistent.

 

-------------

 

Here is the INI from version 1.3 - I double checked and there are no distortions when opened in 1.3, but when its opened in 1.4 - it needs to be corrected, although, usually the width ends up not being 100% correct.

 

zLeft=-0.089999

zRight=0.099999

zTop=0.200000

zBottom=0.370000

SoftwareFilter=0

HardwareFilter=1

vsyncEnabled=1

pixelRatio=0

FlickerFilter=0

Soften=0

nAudDSPModule=0

disableMenuSounds=0

RotationDegrees=0.000000

CursorSpeed=7

nInterpolation=1

nFMInterpolation=0

HiScoreSaving=0

DipEnabled=0

CPUSpeed=256

neoGeoFree=0

bAlwaysDrawFrames=1

SNKBIOS=13

XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

 

-------------

 

Here is the same INI altered by 1.4, which is close to, but not perfect:

 

zLeft=0.360001

zRight=0.549999

zTop=0.210000

zBottom=0.380000

SoftwareFilter=0

HardwareFilter=1

vsyncEnabled=1

pixelRatio=0

FlickerFilter=0

Soften=0

nAudDSPModule=0

disableMenuSounds=0

RotationDegrees=0.000000

CursorSpeed=7

nInterpolation=1

nFMInterpolation=0

HiScoreSaving=0

DipEnabled=0

CPUSpeed=256

neoGeoFree=0

bAlwaysDrawFrames=1

AspectCorrect=13

SNKBIOS=13

XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

 

-------------

 

I noticed the AspectCorrect entry. What does this do exactly? Could that be causing the problem?

 

Thanks again

[+ T +]

Just so you know, the 10x11 pixel ratio bug is fixed.

 

I can't look at the screen size coding that I changed because I didn't change the screen size coding. If your Screen.ini values are 0 and you're not using the widescreen fix option then nothing is different from FBL1.3. So I wouldn't even know what to change. If you're saying that you're not able to adjust the screen to pixel perfect screen size values in 1.4 then I don't see how that's possible. Even if the values in your 1.3 ini files are not producing the results you want then there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to achieve it the same thing by adjusting the screen.

 

Keep in mind that FBL simply was not designed or intended to do what you're trying to do with it. The screen size feature is so people can stretch the display to fill their screen. Obviously I'd like to please everyone so if you can give me a very concise description of what you want fixed, I'll do my best to come up with something. But asking me to compare screen sizes and scanlines isn't helpful because my eye just doesn't see these things and I'm left just as confused as when I started. Every time I think I know what you mean, it seems to change to something else. So I'll leave you to sort out exactly what the issue is and come back to me with just the bottom line. Then I will do what I can to assist.

[+ T +]

I noticed the AspectCorrect entry. What does this do exactly? Could that be causing the problem?

The AspectCorrect entry is the widescreen fix option. It should be either 1 or 0 so I don't know why yours says 13.

 

The fact that 1.3 inis do not have this setting could potentially cause issues. The best thing to do would be to add the line to your 1.3 ini with a setting of 0 and see if it makes any difference.

[PhilExile]

Hey T, I'll try that

Edited August 14, 2011 by PhilExile

[PhilExile]

Hello,

 

Indirectly, that what was causing the issue. This will mainly affect NeoGeo games. Please see the example below:

 

When I opened the WILLOW game with an INI from 1.3, this is what 1.4 did to the last three lines of code:

 

AspectCorrect=13

SNKBIOS=0

XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

 

It either flops the AspectCorrect and SNKBIOS markups or just doesn't move the 13 down to the SNK line. This must also play havoc with the screen size since FBL is likely reading the '13' as just a '1' which means YES COMPRESS THE SCREEN. Cos, this is why your setting were so out of wack and you couldn't fix them.

 

By manually pre-fixing the INI to read correctly before opening the game, I was able to successfully import the INI to 1.4. It read:

 

AspectCorrect=0

SNKBIOS=13

XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

 

Hopefully, this can be fixed for 1.5.

 

I know people are probably still saying 'why the heck does this matter' - well, it does!

 

Here are two images from WILLOW that show how the screen size is wrong. It focuses on the text, not the horizontal distortion that you would see throughout the game. This is the easiest way to illustrate the importance of accurate screen size. Since old games had limited real estate, the type design doesn't lend itself to much scaling - especially if scanlines are in the picture. This makes the text become blurry and, in some cases, unreadable. See below:

 

INCORRECT:

 

 

CORRECT:

 

 

Thanks again T for putting up with all our nitpicking!

Edited August 14, 2011 by PhilExile

[Cospefogo]

I am completely lost on this...

Tried again to import INIs and the screen gets messed up.

 

I did pick my DINO.INI from FBL 1.3 and added the line

"AspectCorrect=0" and the game screen was imported 100% perfect

inside FBL 1.4.

 

But I tried same trick with Alex Kidd and Mutation Nation (NeoGeo)

and got no results.

 

Ouch...

I don't know what more to do.

 

=/

[PhilExile]

Cos, if you were using the INIs I sent last night/earlier today, they are incorrect since they were made with 1.4. I just sent you a batch of the old ones we were working on this past winter. Those should work as long as you add that line in the proper place.

 

Talk soon

[+ T +]

If the problem is definitely the AspectCorrect line in the game ini being set to 13 then that should be an easy fix. So basically you're saying that if I can get FBL to add that line to a 1.3 ini with the correct value of 0 then your problems are solved?