Tibetan Supporters vs. Chinese Supporters

[Alpha]

 

A Tibetan supporter, right, argues with a Chinese supporter at a rally for China's Olympic torch at the Ferry Plaza in San Francisco, Wednesday, April 9, 2008.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/olympic_torch

SAN FRANCISCO - The Olympic torch was rerouted away from thousands of demonstrators and spectators who crowded the city’s waterfront Wednesday to witness the flame’s symbolic journey to the Beijing Games.

 

As the heavily-guarded torchbearers made their way through the city's streets on a chaotic journey, there was scuffling between police and protesters, but order was restored quickly.

 

The planned closing ceremony at the San Francisco Bay waterfront was canceled and another one was planned at an undisclosed location. Massive crowds had gathered at the waterfront to support and protest the flame.

 

[...]

 

Less than an hour before the relay began, officials cut the original six-mile route nearly in half.

 

Then, at the opening ceremony, the first torchbearer took the flame from a lantern brought to the stage and held it aloft before running into a warehouse. A motorcycle escort departed, but the torchbearer was nowhere in sight.

 

Officials drove the torch about a mile inland and handed it off to two runners away from protesters and media, and they began jogging toward the Golden Gate Bridge, in the opposite direction of the crowds awaiting its passing.

 

[...]

 

There were signs of tension even before the torch relay began. Pro-Tibet and pro-China groups were given side-by-side permits to demonstrate, and representatives from both sides spilled from their sanctioned sites across a major street and shouted at each other nose to nose, with no visible police presence to separate them.

 

“A lot of Tibetan people are getting killed,” said Kunga Yeshi, 18, who had traveled here from Salt Lake City. “The Chinese said they’d change if they got the Olympics, but they still won’t change.”

 

Farther along the planned route, about 200 Chinese college students mobbed a car carrying two people waving Tibetan flags in front of the city’s Pier 39 tourist destination. The students, who arrived by bus from the University of California, Davis, banged drums and chanted “Go Olympics” in Chinese.

 

“I’m proud to be Chinese and I’m outraged because there are so many people who are so ignorant they don’t know Tibet is part of China,” Yi Che said. “It was and is and will forever be part of China.”

>> Full Story: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/24024416&GT1=43001

Seeing as how the Olympics are a world event, what are your thoughts about this?

[BlackKnight]

Are we allowed to take sides and make this into a flamewar?

 

I ask because I have strong feelings about this issue that would probably stir up some trouble if voiced.

[Alpha]

Are we allowed to take sides and make this into a flamewar?

 

I ask because I have strong feelings about this issue that would probably stir up some trouble.

It won't turn into a flamewar, unless you want it to.

 

The purpose of this thread is to share your comments, no matter how strong or small your feelings are. Therefore, do share, and I'm sure people will keep this thread well-mannered.

[Wizard]

It's for sports and sports alone, if any country wants to use it for political motivation, GTFO of my Olympics. I'm all for freeing Tibet, but when crap like this happens, it takes away from the sporting events and more focus on political wetworks of countries.

[iq_132]

If China was a person, I'd hit him right in the face with a shovel.

What China is doing right now is cultural genocide and incredibly f*cking uncool.

[iq_132]

If China was a person, I'd hit him right in the face with a shovel.

Eh? There are a few Chinese people on 1Emulation, so elaborate please.

 

It has nothing to do with Chinese people. It's all about the Chinese government.

[emwearz]

Free Tibet! You really gotta feel for these people.

[BlackKnight]

If China was a person, I'd hit him right in the face with a shovel.

What China is doing right now is cultural genocide and incredibly f*cking uncool.

After you knock them down with that shovel, I'd step on them.

[Alpha]

If China was a person, I'd hit him right in the face with a shovel.

What China is doing right now is cultural genocide and incredibly f*cking uncool.

After you knock them down with that shovel, I'd step on them.

Elaborate please.

EDIT: These cheesy short sentences you guys are spitting out ain't helping the discussion.

[ken_cinder]

Tibet declared it's independence in 1911 after the fall of the Qing dynasty, it's time for China to let go. Imperial rule ended on this same basis, and a republic was formed.

 

The current government has absolutely NO claim to Tibet based on this reason alone, and such shameful acts that have gone on for decades should mean China should NEVER get the Olympics until they GTFO out Tibet once and for all. The Olympics are about peace and friendly competition, boycotting China because of Tibet is ENTIRELY relevant here.

[L.S.D]

I believe you guys are seeing this way out of context.

 

Let me ask one question: (well, it might be two)

 

1. If Alaska and Hawaii decided to declare their own independence, would USA allowed it?

 

2. If Tasmania decided that they shouldn't be part of Australian government, would Aussies allowed it?

 

it is not easy for any government to let go of countries that are under their rules. THe British Empire has to let go of their colonised countries because they were bankrupt after the 2nd World War. If that is not the case, do you think the British would not love to have all those natural resources under them?

 

Same arguments applied to China. Tibet has been under China since the Qing Dynasty. The fact that they declared their own independence DOESN'T mean that the new China government that take over from Qing will let the matter simply rest and see some of the lands they thought as their sovereign disappear just like that. Territories and sovereignity of a country is serious issue and I would say this is NOT up to us to critisize without proper checking on the background and history of the countries involved.

 

And yes, it seems like the West like to bash China in whatever they do yet turn a blind eye on what they do themselves. If you want to say China is conducting a genocide on Tibetans, so what do you say about the USA who INVADES Iraq, carpet bombing the whole country and also drove Afghanistan to an era of almost Ice age again? Is there proof that Afghanistan and Iraq are the countries responsible for the 911?

 

When the GUlf War happens, I would say "Iraq deserves the war since they are the one invading Kuwait first!". But what justification can you say about the Iraq war where the people is already at the edge of poverty and there is no proof of WOMD found in Iraq as claimed by the USA?

 

I will add more when i found time. I found the responses here are truly lacking and one-sided at best with no proper justification to why they support those anti-China cause.

 

I take the stand of not supporting the genocide in Tibet, in Iraq or inany parts of the world at all, including palestine, israel etc.

 

And I agree with Wizard. This is a sporting event that has been politicised too much since it involves CHina and everyone is trying to put China in a negative light. Have you all ever deal with China in business or anything? Do you enough of their culture to speak illy of them?

[OverlordMondo]

1. If Alaska and Hawaii decided to declare their own independence, would USA allowed it?

 

I'm actually going to answer yes and void the rest of your post.

 

Edit: I did type that before actually reading your post, and have to admit that it doesn't void your entire post. A fair portion though.

 

The government doesn't own people, the people own the government, the people also own their land. At least that's how it's supposed to work in America, though arguments could be made otherwise, and that isn't necessarily how things are viewed in China. We just think it should be that way.

[L.S.D]

that's the problem with the US. Americans always tried to impose their brand of democracy to everyone in the world, thinking that it is the best and should be followed by everyone. Granted, American democracy might be the best model in some ways but that doesn't mean it can be applied sundry in any countries without taking into account the background and cultures of the country.

[Tynvar]

The Dalai Lama wants China to respect Tibets culture and beliefs more so than independence. But China will not budge. China claims that they are freeing the tibetan people from religion which to them is a disease. Before China took over the people of Tibet lived in fiefs the land was owned by the lamas. China claims they freed the people of this and maybe they did and maybe they didn't, I think each person has to decide whats freedom and what isn't to them. But overall I think the problem is Chinas lack of respect for anything that doesn't go with their party. Which sucks and they shouldn't have the Olympic Games at all.

[iq_132]

I believe you guys are seeing this way out of context.

 

Let me ask one question: (well, it might be two)

 

1. If Alaska and Hawaii decided to declare their own independence, would USA allowed it?

There is no legal precedence saying that a state cannot leave the United States should it choose to so. However, the method would have to be brought before congress, agreed and voted upon, and various other obstacles would also need to be hurdled.

 

2. If Tasmania decided that they shouldn't be part of Australian government, would Aussies allowed it?

 

it is not easy for any government to let go of countries that are under their rules. THe British Empire has to let go of their colonised countries because they were bankrupt after the 2nd World War. If that is not the case, do you think the British would not love to have all those natural resources under them?

If that were the case, wouldn't it make smart economic sense to pick at least some of these territories (say India), hold on to them dearly, and milk as much money out of them as they could?

 

Same arguments applied to China. Tibet has been under China since the Qing Dynasty. The fact that they declared their own independence DOESN'T mean that the new China government that take over from Qing will let the matter simply rest and see some of the lands they thought as their sovereign disappear just like that. Territories and sovereignity of a country is serious issue and I would say this is NOT up to us to critisize without proper checking on the background and history of the countries involved.

Just because a country has historically dominated another doesn't mean that they have a right to it. That's like saying "I stole your bike, and I've had it for a little while, now its mine... because I stole it fair and square. If you try to get it back, I'm going to f*cking kill you... because it's mine now."

 

And yes, it seems like the West like to bash China in whatever they do yet turn a blind eye on what they do themselves. If you want to say China is conducting a genocide on Tibetans, so what do you say about the USA who INVADES Iraq, carpet bombing the whole country and also drove Afghanistan to an era of almost Ice age again? Is there proof that Afghanistan and Iraq are the countries responsible for the 911?

I believe your definition of "Carpet Bombing" is drastically different than the rest of the world's. What the world doesn't like about what the Chinese are doing right now is that they're killing off not just a people, but that people's entire f*cking culture. As for proof about Afghanistan, iirc, we have videos of terrorist training camps there. Not only that, their government was pretty damn evil. And Iraq... oh, I Iraq. Proof of terrorist activity or not, you should Google "Appeasement + WWII." There are some striking similarities there.

 

When the GUlf War happens, I would say "Iraq deserves the war since they are the one invading Kuwait first!". But what justification can you say about the Iraq war where the people is already at the edge of poverty and there is no proof of WOMD found in Iraq as claimed by the USA?

Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds in northern Iraq. IIRC, millions of tons of poison gas just might be Weapons of f*cking Mass Murder (not exactly WMDs, but close enough IMO).

 

I will add more when i found time. I found the responses here are truly lacking and one-sided at best with no proper justification to why they support those anti-China cause.

Happy now?

 

I take the stand of not supporting the genocide in Tibet, in Iraq or in any parts of the world at all, including palestine, israel etc.

I am with you on this one 100%. I do not support what's going on in Iraq, nor the president, but I do support the American Soldiers there -- they're just doing their best to try and help the Iraqi people, even if their leaders intentions aren't as pure.

 

And I agree with Wizard. This is a sporting event that has been politicised too much since it involves CHina and everyone is trying to put China in a negative light. Have you all ever deal with China in business or anything? Do you enough of their culture to speak illy of them?

The Olympics are about bring the world together peacefully. I think that if a country is mass murdering its own people, it probably should not be hosting or participating in them, but that's just me.

 

And yes, I know a great deal about Chinese culture and history.