PhilExile
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Posts posted by PhilExile
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Hi Mtx,
Yes, I've read about those. They use OpenGL effects though and I don't think they can be ported to the Xbox because of that.
I'd be happy with just the scanline option I detailed above.
If the Xbox had more power you could do some really authentic CRT effects:http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/0...ella-emulator/1
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Hello,
I figured it would help if I created an example of what I'm talking about using Rastan, a 320x240 native game, as an example.
Rastan, default resolution:
Rastan 480P, 2X with scanlines overlay at 50% black:
Rastan 720P, 3X with scanlines overlay at 50% black:
Since this would work with the 720p mode, it would actually outperform the XRGB3 capabilities since it can only simulate scanlines on an HDTV at 480p.
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Hello,
No, they are global. It works great. We are still ironing out all the details and whatnot. People are going to love this.
Are these screen settings saved per game? -
Hi Cos,
I hear what you're saying, but this would be a feature mainly for HDTV users.
The reason it doesn't look good on SDTVs is because Xbox outputs 480i, which has subtle scanlines that flicker due to interlacing. These clash with the emulator's simulated scanlines and make it look weird.
In theory, scanlines should look great if CoinOps outputs 480p since you could make a filter that draws a single solid pixel line every other line, so 240 gray/black lines. It may also work with 720p, but the number of solid pixel lines would have to be 360 instead. I think CoinOps could be coded to see if you are outputting 480p or 720p so it would know how many scanlines to draw.
If we could get this to work, it would be another first for a MAME emulator as far as I know. It would also make owners of the XRGB3 cry.
Talk soon
Hey Phil,I have bad experience with scanline simulation filters on SD CRT TVs.
The results never were good.
And I am counting the minutes to test the 10x11 aspect ratio.
Cospefogo.
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Hey BP,
I'm not sure if this would be difficult or impact performance, but have you considering implementing any filters that simulate scanlines? It might be fun to have for the users that like them.
A lot of people buy things like the XRGB3 for a ridiculous amount of money to add scanlines onto an HDTV setup. See below:
http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
It would be something cool to have in CoinOps.
I could help you test/tweak this as well since I can compare the scales output by my Emotia/PVM Monitor and compare it to whats being simulated via CoinOps on the HDTV.
Thanks again, the pixel perfect feature is working fantastic!!!
Talk soon
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Hahaha, thats a fun idea, I bet its possible. You could someone wire something up so that when a quarter is inserted it triggered the "select" button on the Xbox. Depends on how thsoe things work.
Hi,I am building a cab and wonderded if it is possible to rig a coin mech for the xbox to have the authenic feel in CoinOPS, final etc?
I can add a coin door for show, but to make it work would ba awesome. Anyone done it or know if it possible? got any links maybe? I found a mech but its time based not credit based.
Thanks guys
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Hey BP,
I think what you're proposing is a good idea. If you want games like Vigilante to overscan, there could be a advance setting such as the following:
- Enable Overscan
As you said, CoinOps would look at your default screen area and enlarge it by 20% or even 30%. As long as it keeps the XY center and CoinOps is scaling 2X, it shouldn't cause any pixel distortion.
A 10x11 pixel option would definitely help games like Strider that are 384x224. The idea behind this is that it would compress the 768 pixels to a manageable 640. This is all in theory of course, we will have to test it. I think Cospefogo has more experience with this, so he'll be able to elaborate here if needed.
I image it being the following:
- Enable 10x11 pixels for Widescreen
I do think this 10x11 should be limited to widescreen games, however, I'm not sure if its possible to limit the function to just these games.
Thanks again BP, the feature is fantastic!
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I'm still messing around with this is as well, but I just wanted to say that this new feature is really, really impressive. BP has added something that no other arcade emu on the Xbox can do. If I remember correctly, this is even difficult to pull off well on the PC arcade emulators.
BP really hit the ball out of the park on this one!
T H A N K S !!!!!!!
Hey hey BP...Looks like I did fail on my tests, sorry.
PhilExile just told me he achieved good results with the builds
and I am very happy - although I have not made my second
round of tests yet.
In this afternoon, after the work, I will perform the xperiences
again. Thanks man, for you prompt work!
See you later!
Best regards,
Cospefogo.
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Hi OldOne,
I think the only way this can be achieved is through a hacked BIOs. As far as I know, the guys trying to get this to work never managed it. BP indirectly made a great point, if you did change the BIOs to output 240p, it may goof up HD output, crash the emulators that were never coded for this output and in general, limit the Xbox's versatility. I.E. Hooking up to SD or HD TVs with a broad range a resolution options.
This said, I'm a fan of 240p and its possible on Xbox, I do it myself on one of setups.
Just get an Extron Emotia, a Frosty VGA cable or something like the Neoya XVGA, and read this guide: http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/Once you have everything hooked up. Change output on your Xbox and emulators to 480p, then flip the switch on the Emotia to "non-interlaced" and presto, 240p.
I'm been doing this a few months and it works flawlessly. Also, with BP's new pixel perfect X settings it looks exactly like the arcade in CoinOps.
Hope this helps you out.
Hi BP,have you ever come across this? http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=662368
It seems, that the Xbox is capable of outputting true low resolutions like 240p or 288p. If this is possible, it would solve a lot of the aspect ratio issues.
And you would be the first one who did something like this.
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Cospefogo,
I was able to get Pixel Perfect X working by extending the screen size. Its pretty great!
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Go into your E directory and delete any folder that starts with "BABE" from both the TDATA and UDATA folders. It may be BABE2009.
Restart the Xbox and try to launch CoinOps again. I'm betting this will fix your problem. Or not.
After putting CoinOPS Reignite Showcase R3 (the complete 10 gig torrent) on my xbox, all I get on startup is a screen that says CoinOPS and "Press Any Key" and then another screen that says "Please Wait" with a blue bar underneath that fills up to about 1/3 before my xbox crashes.Reinstalled it once already, putting it in my F:\Games folder, freezes up on that damed blue bar everytime. This package looks great, but it will not run on my xbox at all. Just hoping someone might have had a similar experience and knows how to fix it.
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Can't wait to try it BP!
Again, thank you for taking the time to work this out. Much appreciated!
Default Aspect Ratios (as per before)Scale (this fits to your screensize you defined but keeps the aspect ratio and fits it into that window)
Stretch (this fits everything to your screensize you defined and adjust aspect ratio including stretching vertical games )
Pixel Perfect (this ignors your screensize you defined and just uses the pixels the game has...it centers it but also uses the top left and bottom right corner of your defined window to determine the centering )
Pixel Perfect X (same as above but will scale it by x2 or x3 or x4 or x5 if it will fit to scale as much as it can into the screensize you defined )
Horizontal (adjusts widescreen horizontal games to a more correct aspect)
Rotated (adjusts rotated games to a more correct aspect for widescreen)
Horizontal and Rotated (adjusts rotated games to a more correct aspect for widescreen and also Horizontal games to a better aspect ratio for widescreen)
adjust Pixel Perfect X to upsize to screensize you defined only as it sometimes went off the screen using all pixels availble
BETA is ready for testing I think its all good and alot there for everyone...even someone wanted to stretch PACMAN to full screen...you can do that now with the stretch Aspect Ratio
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OK, if 3x is OK with Cos, its OK with me.
Cos, Capcom was nuts, they future proofed their games: http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?publicUser...amp;bId=8987002
It was originally played at 320x224 monitors, they just mushed the pixels horizontally. I've found, while experimenting with 240p and the Emotia, that the vertical pixels are the most important to hit to avoid distortion. Vertical "tates," like Pac Man, are more of a problem. You really need both horizontal and vertical dimensions to be perfect.
10x11 would be a cool feature that could address stuff like this I suppose.
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Hey Frank,
I hope I'm wrong, but check out explanation from Cospefogo's site:
The vintage consoles have different scrensizes, and it's mandatory to keep them in mind to reach perfect adjustments on Xbox. It's important to mention a example of how the things work: a pixel is a square, and square have all sides the same size (duh!), correct? So, if you take a 2x2 pixels screen and you want to increase it's size - while keeping a correct aspect ratio - the first size possible without any distortions will be a 4x4 screen. You can't resize a 2x2 image into a 3x4, 4x3, 5x2 image, the aspect ratio will be completely destroyed, and so, all the graphics inside.
The same happens for 320x240 screens. They must be 640x480 when doubled, they should not be 623x482. Incorrect screensizes can be perfectly used by the Modern Method guys, because all the filters they use will be masking all distortions, but incorrect screensizes can't be used by the Oldskool followers, since the absence of filters will reveal a lot undesirable "artifacts". If you don't like filtering, you should have in mind that it's important to keep a correct size displaying.
It was my experience that things were slightly off. You could see it in the numbers and whatnot. Try something like Super Mario Bros in the NES emulator and you'll see what I mean.
Again, I hope I'm wrong because it will make bringing perfect pixels to 720p that much easier.
I've messed around with this before and unless you multiply by equal numbers (2, 4, 6, etc), it won't work right. You need to double the pixels or things look off.Hey Phil, look at this:
Nothing will "look off" @3X. Things just gets bigger..
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And YES, there are another 600 games that will never fit on this size, because they are wide screen or something
similar, like the famous CPS1 and CPS2 games.
The pixel perfect option should be a option that cover SOME games, and not all.
I myself, for CPS1, CPS2, CAVE Shmups and several other games use the screen stretched on width with bilinear filtering.
There is no other way for this games.
Hey Cospefogo,
I slightly disagree with you on this.
CPS1, 2 and CAVE can be 640 wide, since this is how they were originally displayed in the arcade. -
Hi Frank,
I've messed around with this before and unless you multiply by equal numbers (2, 4, 6, etc), it won't work right. You need to double the pixels or things look off.
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That sounds good. We should give it a whirl and see if it works.
I can also help you with 720p. I have an HDTV as well.
Personally, for HDTV, if you're going to scale it to 3x, you won't get "perfect" pixels anyway. Maybe we could do something like scale it to 3x and make sure antialias is on. I think that'd be best unless we could get 1080i input and do the screen resolution at 4x.
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Hello,
I just tried this with Alien Syndrome, but it only displayed a black screen. Here is the code I used. I started with the default position of 0,0,1,1 and made the PNG 640x480. I also tried it with PNGs as 320x240 and got the same black screen as a result.
bezel:
file = black.png
alphafile = alphamask.png
layer = bezel
priority = 0
visible = 1
position = 0.0,0.0,1.0,1.0
Any ideas?
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That's really interesting. Its a hack sort of and a really clever one! I think you'r right though, the CoinOps screen setting could much things up. I can try this later today though.
Thanks!
eoldone' date='Mar 27 2010, 08:48 PM' post='329674']
Hi folks,
there is a way to change the CoinOps screensize and aspect ratio on a game by game basis.
I show you on Zaxxon as an example...
Create two plain black pngs the size of 256x224 and name them alphablack.png and black.png
create a text file named zaxxon.art (always use the rom name) with the following content:
bezel: file = black.png alphafile = alphamask.png layer = bezel priority = 0 visible = 1 position = -0.250,-0.459,1.250,1.469
Zip up the three files to zaxxon.zip and put it in the Coinops/artwork dir. Thats about it...
The hard part is to calculate the position values in zaxxon.art
The CoinOps source code says the following:
********************************************************************** POSITIONING The positioning of the artwork is a little tricky. Conceptually, the game bitmap occupies the space from (0,0) to (1,1). If you have a piece of artwork that exactly covers the game area, then it too should stretch from (0,0) to (1,1). However, most of the time, this is not the case. For example, if you have, say, the Spy Hunter bezel at the bottom of the screen, then you will want to specify the top of the artwork at 1.0 and the bottom at something larger, maybe 1.25. The nice thing about the new artwork system is that it will automatically stretch the bitmaps out to accomodate areas beyond the game bitmap, and will still keep the proper aspect ratio. Another common example is a backdrop that extends beyond all four corners of the game bitmap. Here is how you would handle that, in detail: Let's say you have some artwork like this: <============ 883 pixels ===============> (1)-------------------------------------(2) ^ | ^ | | | 26 pixels | | | v | | | (5)-----------------------(6) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |<---->| | | | | 97 | Game screen | | 768 |pixels| 700 x 500 | | pixels | | |<---->| | | | | 86 | | | | |pixels| | | | | | | | | | | | | (7)-----------------------( | | | ^ | | | 42 pixels | | | v | | (3)-------------------------------------(4) v If you're looking at the raw coordinates as might seem logical, you would imagine that they come out like this: (1) is at (0,0) (2) is at (883,0) (3) is at (0,768) (4) is at (883,768) (5) is at (97,26) (6) is at (797,26) (7) is at (97,526) ( is at (797,526) The first thing you need to do is adjust the coordinates so that the upper left corner of the game screen (point 5) is at (0,0). To do that, you need to subtract 97 from each X coordinate and 26 from each Y coordinate: (1) is at (0-97,0-26) -> (-97,-26) (2) is at (883-97,0-26) -> (786,-26) (3) is at (0-97,768-26) -> (-97,742) (4) is at (883-97,768-26) -> (883,742) (5) is at (97-97,26-26) -> (0,0) (6) is at (797-97,26-26) -> (700,0) (7) is at (97-97,526-26) -> (0,500) ( is at (797-97,526-26) -> (700,500) The final thing you need to do is make it so the bottom right corner of the image (point is at (1.0,1.0). To do that, you need to divide each coordinate by the width or height of the image (1) is at (-97/700,-26/500) -> (-0.13857,-0.052) (2) is at (786/700,-26/500) -> (1.122857,-0.052) (3) is at (-97/700,742/500) -> (-0.13857, 1.484) (4) is at (883/700,742/500) -> (1.122857, 1.484) (5) is at (0/700,0/500) -> (0.0,0.0) (6) is at (700/700,0/500) -> (1.0,0.0) (7) is at (0/700,500/500) -> (0.0,1.0) ( is at (700/700,500/500) -> (1.0,1.0) Alternately, you can also provide pixel coordinates, but it will still be relative to the game's native resolution. So, if the game normally runs at 256x224, you'll need to compute the division factor so that the bottom right corner of the game (point ends up at (256,224) instead of (1.0,1.0). Basically, if you have the original coordinates shown right below the image, you can compute the values needed by doing this for X coordinates: (X coordinate on artwork) - (X coordinate of game's upper-left) --------------------------------------------------------------- (width of game in artwork pixels) And this for Y coordinates: (Y coordinate on artwork) - (Y coordinate of game's upper-left) --------------------------------------------------------------- (height of game in artwork pixels) *********************************************************************
Remember one thing. The global screensize setting will interfer with the new settings. So better leave them at default values...
Maybe someone like Cospefogo can figure out some decent settings... I am too stupid...
I have not tried it, but i think this trick will not work on any of the new cores added to coinops...
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Hi BP,
You're absolutely right, this won't be easy. Its funny, stuff always appears to be easy at the outset, but then once you get into it, its a different story. My professor in college used to say this about interactive design: its hard to make functionality appear easy.
I'm willing to help you out as much as I can and I have some ideas on how this can work. Cospefogo will bend over backwards to help too.
I hear you on the randomness of arcade machine resolutions! TheOldOne made a good point in that this feature will primarily benefit cab users or people like myself who are simulating a cab with a video monitor. As such I think we should focus on getting this part working first and then (maybe) take a look at HDTV.
Is there a way to code a resolution check of the ROM before it launches, I.E. - Can CoinOps be programmed to do an if/then process before launching each ROM? I'm guess it would be something like the following -
if resolution = 320x240, double native
if resolution = 640x480, native
The user could enable "native resolution option" in the Settings menu and only in 480i/p mode. The following would then happen when you launch a ROM:
- Launch After Burner
- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 320x224 and gives the following options -
Native Resolution (X2)
Fit to Screen
or
- Launch Capcom vs. SNK
- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 640x448 and gives the following options -
Native Resolution
Fit to Screen
or
- Launch Marvel Vs. Capcom
- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 384x224 and gives the following options -
Native Resolution Standard* (X2)
Fit to Screen
* Capcom is crazy and they made this game, as well as many others, widescreen even though it would be run at SD. So the proper value for 480i/p this would be 640x448, not 768x448. For more in depth explanation of this madness check out this article:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?publicUser...amp;bId=8987002
All this said, I don't know how to program, but I think you'll get what I'm saying. Again, thank you for looking at adding this feature. I think it will benefit a lot of Xbox users, especially in the future.
Best Regards
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So if (XBOX) comments on any aspect of CoinOps you'll remove the feature? That doesn't make any sense to me. Its like your doing things for him rather than the people that support your efforts.
In any case, its your time and emulator. If you want to remove the feature because of one drunk* jackass, that's up to you of course.
* happy juice = booze, beer, etc
(XBOX) is responsible for many threads closing so it was best to remove anything he is involved with.... his post wasnt just a I vote for X it was insulting as such I moved on.....also (XBOX) said port stuff was so easy .... so I left him to cross port the other stuff like the SEGA fixes you just talked about ... my sources and iq sources are out just add and cross port the system32 stuff...if people talk to much rubbish I leave it to them to add and move one
so thank to (XBOX) he will add it for you guys and then thank iq_132 he is the driver man for suredriver stuff isnt in consideration at present by me due to lack of time really..... anyone can submit a patch but for me this stuff isnt as important as compiling a new list of games and a new GUI....
when people say new iq stuff they need to be more spicific about games (although thanks xxhell that was better)
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It looks like (XBOX) said he liked the feature, so BP decided to remove it because of this.
I don't get it. Judging from the poll when it was up, there were a LOT of people who wanted the future.
BP, please don't let one bad apple ruin the bunch. Your strongest supporters would love to see the pixel perfect feature.
Thanks
What the flock is going on here?Why the pixel perfect feature is gone?
Why? When? What's the real reason behind it?
Is it SO TROUBLE to code that it will be left behind?
This is the only real true feature that was NEVER implemented before,
the only one who really worths a new version of the emulator.
This is important to play the game as they really intented.
I can't understand why it was dropped out?
There was a voting process running?
Jesus flocking Christ!
Cospefogo.
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I guess I'm the only person who doesn't miss Mortal Kombat.
I voted for MK core since there's no option for 'More iq_132 drivers'. -
Hah, can someone rename this the Jackass Thread?
Nobody ever liked you Bobby Drake.
Wow, what a pathetic little girl you really are. Maybe if you'd taken that credit list seriously people might start to take you more seriously, but no, just more evidence of how puerile you are.
CoinOPS 2 (old dev site)
in CoinOPS Archive
Posted · Edited by PhilExile
Also, they are replicating cheap CRTs. I have two Sony PVM20m4u studio monitors and they do not exhibit any of the ghosting or muted colors that are shown here. New arcade machine screens don't look this bad. If they have been in constant use for over 20 years, then they probably do, but that's not necessarily something you want to emulate.
I'm more impressed with this set of filters, but again, these aren't for arcade. http://www.fly.net/~ant/libs/ntsc.html