Hmm, well at least some people have seen them...only problem, is that I asked people on 3 different forums, woops... Yeah, avatarv2 is ok, but some people (half including myself) say the shadow diesn't fit with it very well... I'll but up a black page with links to them, I know that works for a fact... And ya, one merit point, Graal it is, where/when did you play ? *edit* Take a look here, should work: http://www.geocities.com/phildocherty/avatars.html