random guy Posted December 19, 2004 Author Share Posted December 19, 2004 The army is not a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeval Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 The army is not a business.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok, that's fair, we're starting to think critically it looks like... Now, how does this lead to your conclusion? Should non-business organizations not have the same right to publicly traded lists as businesses do? Or is it just selective services who should be specifically not-included? Are you sure this isn't just an attempt to justify your emotional reaction to selective services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random guy Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) The army is not a business.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok, that's fair, we're starting to think critically it looks like... Now, how does this lead to your conclusion? Should non-business organizations not have the same right to publicly traded lists as businesses do? Or is it just selective services who should be specifically not-included? Are you sure this isn't just an attempt to justify your emotional reaction to selective services?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>For crying out loud man, no matter how many times you complain along the "knee-jerk reaction" line (I count at least half a dozen), if even ONE PERSON out of the nearly 120,000 people who were contacted using this list signed up to the Selective Service as a result of being contacted, WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON WENT TO WAR, that means THE ARMY WAS SOLICITING for "customers" using the list. To put it another way, the Army proudly states that 94% of people who are supposed to sign up to the selective service do. Going by those statistics, of the 120,000 people who were on that list, if they all signed up for the SS after getting the letter, that means that about 7000 people signed up that otherwise wouldn't have!But hey, you seem to be so convinced that I'm some emotional firebomb, incapable of viewing matters objectively, that you've completely (and pre-emptorily) ruled out the possibility that my concerns may be valid, and quite frankly I'm getting sick of arguing. Edited December 20, 2004 by random guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeval Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 For crying out loud man, no matter how many times you complain along the "knee-jerk reaction" line (I count at least half a dozen), if even ONE PERSON out of the nearly 120,000 people who were contacted using this list signed up to the Selective Service as a result of being contacted, WHETHER OR NOT THAT PERSON WENT TO WAR, that means THE ARMY WAS SOLICITING for "customers" using the list. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>And you've ignored the whole reason I brought up the knee-jerk reaction the entire time - how is it some terrible thing that the ss would be "soliciting for customers" only to do what they're legally required to do anyway? Aside from a knee-jerk emotional reaction to the ss, I see no reason. You haven't been able to logically argue around that yet. To put it another way, the Army proudly states that 94% of people who are supposed to sign up to the selective service do. Going by those statistics, of the 120,000 people who were on that list, if they all signed up for the SS after getting the letter, that means that about 7000 people signed up that otherwise wouldn't have!<{POST_SNAPBACK}>The article states that the list was of 167,000 18-year-olds-to-be, not 120,000. Since ALL 167,000 are "supposed to sign up to the selective service," and the army is claiming 94% of all who are supposed to do so actually sign up, the best number you could get out of this rather rough application of statistics would be that 156,980 of the 167,000 people on the list signed up. That's a lot more than 7,000. And then to assume that none of these 156,980 people would have done what was legally required of them if they hadn't gotten a letter sent by ss through this ice cream list.. is just ridiculous! People are going to hear about it through their friends who are likely also turning 18. From their family members and other adults who might have served or who, at the very least, had to sign up themselves when they were 18. Many of them are going to already be in the ss mailing database somewhere, whether from DMV records, financial aid applications, possibly school records or even relations with military recruiters. There is no way to tell how many of the 156,980 people would not have heard about the ss if it weren't for this particular mailing list, but I'm willing to bet it's a hell of a lot less than 7,000. Maybe your math went right over my head, in which case I'd like you to spell it out, but these numbers sound rather erroneous.. Even if they are correct, we come back to the fact that your 7,000 people would be commiting a crime that could destroy their future in this country and is arguably unfair to their fellow countrymen. But hey, you seem to be so convinced that I'm some emotional firebomb, incapable of viewing matters objectively, that you've completely (and pre-emptorily) ruled out the possibility that my concerns may be valid, and quite frankly I'm getting sick of arguing.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I never ruled it out, in fact, I agree with your concerns about SS, I just don't like your methods. I never meant any of this as a personal attack on you, you're still cool as far as I'm concerned, I get fired up over stuff too. It's just when an important world/national issue like this is at stake, I see no room for this kind of rhetorical argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random guy Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 You completely misunderstand my maths - say there were 167,000 people, by the army's statistic we are to assume that 156,000 would sign up WITHOUT INTERVENTION OF THE LETTER, that leaves 10,000 people who are likely to sign up after they got the letter. If ANY ONE of those people signed up as a result of recieving the letter, that counts as solicitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeval Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 You completely misunderstand my maths - say there were 167,000 people, by the army's statistic we are to assume that 156,000 would sign up WITHOUT INTERVENTION OF THE LETTER, that leaves 10,000 people who are likely to sign up after they got the letter. If ANY ONE of those people signed up as a result of recieving the letter, that counts as solicitation.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah ok, I see where you're coming from. That would be right if the army's statistic (94%) refers only to people who sign up without recieving reminder letters. However, just about everyone gets those reminder letters as they're turning 18, so those people are probably included in the 94% statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random guy Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 If the army has to resort to free ice-cream lists to mail people, I seriously doubt that "nearly everyone" recieves reminder letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeval Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) If the army has to resort to free ice-cream lists to mail people, I seriously doubt that "nearly everyone" recieves reminder letters.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>What young men turning 18 recieve from Selective Service is a "Mailback Reminder Card." As outlined here, from the selective service site, SS uses a wide range of lists to come up with the names of recipients. The ice cream list would have supplemented these existing lists. Between these lists, SS manages to mail a LOT of reminder cards. Now, do you honestly think that their 94% statistic does not include people who get reminder cards? I would be willing to bet that those cards go out to more than 6% of 18 year olds in a given year. Nevermind that we're comparing a modern statistic to a story that's 20 years old. Or that our statistics aren't the important part of the previous argument. Anyway, I tire of it too. If you wish to continue I might, but only if it's good. Edited December 20, 2004 by Daeval Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random guy Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 I give up. Hell, it's not my country, what do I care how many people get forced to sign up for this thing, or from free ice-cream, free toy, hell, free sex lists for all I care. Why stop when they're 15, why not make people sign up when they're 12? Or 6? Or make their parents sign em up when they're born? You'll change your tune once the draft gets reinstated (yes I said ONCE, not IF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cominus Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 (edited) I give up. Hell, it's not my country, what do I care how many people get forced to sign up for this thing, or from free ice-cream, free toy, hell, free sex lists for all I care. Why stop when they're 15, why not make people sign up when they're 12? Or 6? Or make their parents sign em up when they're born? You'll change your tune once the draft gets reinstated (yes I said ONCE, not IF)<{POST_SNAPBACK}> WHAT'S THIS?! RANDOMGUY GAVE UP?! DAVEAL MUST HAVE BIATCHED SLAPED YOU ACROSS THE BOARD?! THIS IS AMAZING. TODAY IS TRUELY A GREAT DAY TO REMEMBER DECEMBER 20, 2004. RANDOMGUY GOT PUT IN HIS PLACE AND OUT OF OUR COUNTRY. WHY SIGN PEOPLE UP WHEN THEY'RE BORN? WE COULD, BUT WHAT IF THEY DIE, THAT WOULD MAKE A WHOLE BUNCH OF LISTS OF NAMES JUST USELESS AND SUCH, ALL THOSE RECORDS TO KEEP TRACK OF, WHO REALLY WANTS THAT? WE CAN'T MAKE PEOPLE SIGN THIER KIDS UP FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WE CAN ONLY INSIST, ONLY DURNING A DRAFT CAN WE ACTUALLY DO THIS, BECUASE IT BYPASSES THE CONSTITUTION DURING A WAR TIME, ONLY THEN IS THIS POSSIBLE, AND WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO SEND US WAR, LIKE WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO DRAFT US? YOU MUST BE JEALOUS OR SOMETHING? ALL THIS IS, IS A CENSUS, YOU GET IT? A CENSUS, A THING THAT LETS THE GOVERNMENT KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THE COULD BE ELIGABLE TO ENROLL, THAT WAY IF THERE WAS A DRAFT THEY COULD PICK A LIST OF HOWEVER MANY PEOPLE AND SEE WHO'S ELIGABLE. IT'S A LIST OF NAMES, THATS ALL IT IS, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU ARE GONNA GET DRAFTED, IT'S ONLY A POSSIBILTY. A DRAFT IS "IF YOU'RE AN AMERICAN, YOU MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA, YOU'RE GONNA FIGHT THE WAR", THIS RIGHT HERE IS JUST A CENSUS OF WHO'S OUT THERE, REGARDLESS OF WHO THEY ARE OR WHATEVER. LOTZ OF PEOPLE LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALY AND LEGALLY. SOME PEOPLE DO A GOOD JOB OF HIDING FROM RECORDS, AND THIS "ICE CREAM" SCANDLE IS A GOOD WAY TO FIND "PEOPLE". IT'Z FUNNY HOW LIKE NOBODY REALLY GOES INTO THE REGUALR CENSUS BUT THEN A SHYT LOAD WHEN THE FREE ICE CREAM LISTS POPS UP. Edited December 21, 2004 by alexis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexis Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 you guys have to learn to control yourselves, oh and FLAMING is not allowwed , ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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