56 replies to this topic

[+ T +]

I've started a new topic for this discussion since it's starting to take over the FBL1.4 thread somewhat and as far as I can tell it's reached the stage where there's nothing that needs to be done on the emulator side of things. Of course I'll still help and contribute to the discussion but I don't want new users with other questions and issues to get intimidated by all the values inis being thrown around in the main thread. It also makes it easier for you guys to keep all this discussion in one place.

So please post anything pixel perfect related here.

[PhilExile]

Yeah, I'm probably not the best person to review these. I still don't know how resizing a screen to be 'pixel perfect' could be anything other than 1x/2x/3x/4x/anyotherInteger * the emulated game's actual output resolution.

OK, no problem - for some reason, I thought you had the PP sickness.

In 480P, no amount of fiddling with the 10x11 and Widescreen Fix options made the few games I tried show no scaling artifacts -AND- show the entire screen.

Right, that's the trade-off. If your CRT overscales the picture a lot, you will loss some information. The ideal is to either get a video production monitor (Sony PVMs are great), which will allow you to adjust overscan or use an LCD in 480P mode.

I don't know if it's my setup or how the .INIs are, but the first example I ran into was 1941, where yes, the scrolling was nice and smooth with no artifacts, but the top (score area) and bottom (VITAL/lives/ROLL area) of the game's screen were way past the edges of the visible area of the monitor itself.

1941 is a vertical game and I set the PP to work with the SCREEN ROTATION set to DISABLED. On my monitor it works fine with the WIDESCREEN FIX: ON. If you still have some overscan, turn on the 10x11 pixel ration fix - that should cure it. However, if you turned the WIDESCREEN mode on/off it may have goofed up the INI I sent you and you'll have to re-copy it over.

Since I'm not playing on a 4:3/3:4 CRT, but on a 16:10 VGA monitor, I just end up running everything in 720P and scaling w/correct aspect, and I just deal with the alternating-size pixels caused by the scaling :/

OK, you might as well - especially if it doesn't bother you. You can use some of the filters to hide this type of stuff - like billinear. Just out of curiosity, what model monitor do you have?

Thanks again for testing.

Edited by PhilExile, 13 August 2011 - 07:15 PM.

[JLsoft]

At the moment, I'm using just a cheap 19" Acer LCD (switching between the XB and this comp via an X2VGA+)


As for filters/etc, oof, I hate 'em...I'm all about hardware Point + no software filter, and no scanlines. Back when I -was- using 480i, about 90% of my posts on the X-S forum were trying to get people to adopt/embrace adding the option for changing the Flicker Filter/soften filter in different emus/etc after 'FlickerFucker' came out and I saw how sexy games could be in composite/S-Video 480i



It's weird...while I'm against any smoothing filters/scanlines/etc personally (...back when I was using these older consoles/computers 'for real', I always wanted the sharpest display possible at the time), I -also- like some of the convincingly good aperture/RGB dot/etc filters that are out there for MAME/FBA. Another filter I also dig is the 'NTSC' filter that's in NestopiaX and MadMab's update of AtariXLbox...although I don't think I'd seriously play through something for a long time with it on.





With the HLSL stuff recently added to the PC version of MAME though, I'm already seeing a lot of gross screenshots from people who think that arcade monitors were almost fisheye/peephole shaped and had darkened scanlines thicker than the visible rows of pixels.

[Cospefogo]

Going back to INI importing:

My FBL 1.4 imports each game INI as it should be,
but at least here in my end, the games start up with
a very very very small distortion, breaking the pixel
perfect from 1.3.

We can even change the subject --- the problem is
not pixel perfect, the problem, at least for me, is that
FBL 1.4 is not reading the screen size values correclty.

Dear +T+, did you tried to run my DINO.INI in a FBL 1.3,
and then in FBL 1.4 to make the comparison?

You can get any other INIs for CPS1 and CPS2 games from
the ZIP I shared yesterday to make more comparisons.
I am curious if you could get the same result as mine.

One thing that could help the pixel perfect purists in their
insane screen adjustments, could be to set up the directional
digital pad to also move/stretch/squeeze the screen.

Why I could ask for that? Simple...

I use solely a HORI Arcade Stick and a oficial Sega Saturn pad
in my Xbox. Any time I need to mess up with screen configs,
I need to go to the basement, open a old rusty chest full of
abandoned gadgets, and take the dust from my Xbox S-Controller.

Maybe we could have some stuff like:

- Directional pad alone resizes the screen, to up, down, left, right.
- And if you hold A and press the directional pad, you move the screen on the offset X and Y.
....................wonderful for arcade cabinet owner and haters of the most infamous controller
in the face of the third planet from the solar solar system, the Xbox MS S-Controller.


* * *

PhilCo my man,

Definetely I am not having good moments with 480p. Some INIs I tried from you
zip gave me images too wide, with a lot of overscan, like for example Armored Warriors
and Alex Kidd. Then, still under 480p, I tried to re-adjust them, and there is no way
to find the perfect width spot in a CPS game. When I reach a size/screen usage
similar to the values I found out in 720p the screen gets ALMOST perfect. Almost almost...
But not AS IN 720p, clear crystal and sharp like the edge of the sword of Agenor, the
blind Ninja from Nigeria. So, I did return to 720p...

PS. I have not tried all your INIs. I went right after the CPS1/CPS2 ones, the most
important for me due to their wide native aspect ratio.

And you, did you tried to open DINO.INI in your FBL 1.3?
The link is on the previous page.

And I am decided, at least by now, to keep both versions.
In FBL 1.3 I will play most of the games, since they are already Pixel Perfect here.
And in FBL 1.4 I will play all rotated vertical games (Now the ghostly bug is gone) and I will
play newer games/drivers that +T+ and his Band of Brothers could add eventually.

Hej! GunSmoke is PERFECT now!
Vendetta too!
But I can't run Osmann... My roms id bad.

Cospefogo.

[PhilExile]

At the moment, I'm using just a cheap 19" Acer LCD (switching between the XB and this comp via an X2VGA+)

Time to upgrade. I would setup an alert for SONY PVM on your local Craigslist. I got one for free that way and another for $100. Call post-production houses or advertising agencies that have video editing suites too. Sometimes they have stuff they are looking to get rid of.

As for filters/etc, oof, I hate 'em...I'm all about hardware Point + no software filter, and no scanlines. Back when I -was- using 480i, about 90% of my posts on the X-S forum were trying to get people to adopt/embrace adding the option for changing the Flicker Filter/soften filter in different emus/etc after 'FlickerFucker' came out and I saw how sexy games could be in composite/S-Video 480i

I hate them too, but billinear is the best if you need to get rid of screen size distortions - it does hide it very well.

Another filter I also dig is the 'NTSC' filter that's in NestopiaX and MadMab's update of AtariXLbox...although I don't think I'd seriously play through something for a long time with it on.

Ya, that filters the most 'realistic' I've seen, however, its not 100%. I have a real NES hooked up to PVM via composite and it definitely doesn't look much like the filter in Nestopia - or as bad. It really depended on your TV and connecting cord too.

With the HLSL stuff recently added to the PC version of MAME though, I'm already seeing a lot of gross screenshots from people who think that arcade monitors were almost fisheye/peephole shaped and had darkened scanlines thicker than the visible rows of pixels.

I'm not familiar - could you post a link?

[PhilExile]

One thing that could help the pixel perfect purists in their
insane screen adjustments, could be to set up the directional
digital pad to also move/stretch/squeeze the screen.

- Directional pad alone resizes the screen, to up, down, left, right.
- And if you hold A and press the directional pad, you move the screen on the offset X and Y.
....................wonderful for arcade cabinet owner and haters of the most infamous controller
in the face of the third planet from the solar solar system, the Xbox MS S-Controller.

This would be great! T, is that possible?

Definetely I am not having good moments with 480p. Some INIs I tried from you
zip gave me images too wide, with a lot of overscan, like for example Armored Warriors
and Alex Kidd. Then, still under 480p, I tried to re-adjust them, and there is no way
to find the perfect width spot in a CPS game.

There is a bug in FBL that doesn't allow a preconfigured 10x11 INI to be implemented. T is looking into fixing it for the 1.5 release. ALEX KIDD is one such game. Just go into video settings and turn off 10x11, then turn it back on. It should fix the overscan issue you are having.

PS. I have not tried all your INIs. I went right after the CPS1/CPS2 ones, the most
important for me due to their wide native aspect ratio.

Don't, there are a lot of errors, which I discovered this morning. I'm combing through them now and fixing them, so I'll resend shortly.

And you, did you tried to open DINO.INI in your FBL 1.3?
The link is on the previous page.

Not yet, but I will!

Talk soon

[PhilExile]

OK - after playing around with this some more and then going BACK to 1.3, I have to agree with Cospefogo - there is definitely something affecting these screen values.

I opened PROGEAR in 1.3 with no problems - both the horizontal and vertical sizes were perfect with no distortion. I opened this same game in 1.4, using the same INI - immediately, the game was too low, causing it to be off-register with the scanlines. I could not get the horizontal size to 'lock' without having distortion.

T, could you please take a look at the screen sizing code that you changed again? I've spent, literally, an entire day working on this, and I'm 99% sure there is something wrong.

Thank you again for your help.

[PhilExile]

Hey T,

I was just comparing two INIs for the game, EIGHTMAN, which is listed at MAWS as 320x240 - standard for NeoGeo, though not 100% consistent.

-------------

Here is the INI from version 1.3 - I double checked and there are no distortions when opened in 1.3, but when its opened in 1.4 - it needs to be corrected, although, usually the width ends up not being 100% correct.

zLeft=-0.089999
zRight=0.099999
zTop=0.200000
zBottom=0.370000
SoftwareFilter=0
HardwareFilter=1
vsyncEnabled=1
pixelRatio=0
FlickerFilter=0
Soften=0
nAudDSPModule=0
disableMenuSounds=0
RotationDegrees=0.000000
CursorSpeed=7
nInterpolation=1
nFMInterpolation=0
HiScoreSaving=0
DipEnabled=0
CPUSpeed=256
neoGeoFree=0
bAlwaysDrawFrames=1
SNKBIOS=13
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

-------------

Here is the same INI altered by 1.4, which is close to, but not perfect:

zLeft=0.360001
zRight=0.549999
zTop=0.210000
zBottom=0.380000
SoftwareFilter=0
HardwareFilter=1
vsyncEnabled=1
pixelRatio=0
FlickerFilter=0
Soften=0
nAudDSPModule=0
disableMenuSounds=0
RotationDegrees=0.000000
CursorSpeed=7
nInterpolation=1
nFMInterpolation=0
HiScoreSaving=0
DipEnabled=0
CPUSpeed=256
neoGeoFree=0
bAlwaysDrawFrames=1
AspectCorrect=13
SNKBIOS=13
XBINPUT_DEADZONE=0.540000

-------------

I noticed the AspectCorrect entry. What does this do exactly? Could that be causing the problem?

Thanks again

[+ T +]

Just so you know, the 10x11 pixel ratio bug is fixed.

I can't look at the screen size coding that I changed because I didn't change the screen size coding. If your Screen.ini values are 0 and you're not using the widescreen fix option then nothing is different from FBL1.3. So I wouldn't even know what to change. If you're saying that you're not able to adjust the screen to pixel perfect screen size values in 1.4 then I don't see how that's possible. Even if the values in your 1.3 ini files are not producing the results you want then there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to achieve it the same thing by adjusting the screen.

Keep in mind that FBL simply was not designed or intended to do what you're trying to do with it. The screen size feature is so people can stretch the display to fill their screen. Obviously I'd like to please everyone so if you can give me a very concise description of what you want fixed, I'll do my best to come up with something. But asking me to compare screen sizes and scanlines isn't helpful because my eye just doesn't see these things and I'm left just as confused as when I started. Every time I think I know what you mean, it seems to change to something else. So I'll leave you to sort out exactly what the issue is and come back to me with just the bottom line. Then I will do what I can to assist.

[+ T +]

I noticed the AspectCorrect entry. What does this do exactly? Could that be causing the problem?

The AspectCorrect entry is the widescreen fix option. It should be either 1 or 0 so I don't know why yours says 13.

The fact that 1.3 inis do not have this setting could potentially cause issues. The best thing to do would be to add the line to your 1.3 ini with a setting of 0 and see if it makes any difference.

[PhilExile]

Hey T, I'll try that

Edited by PhilExile, 14 August 2011 - 01:42 AM.