Hey guys,
The reason for this thread is that I don't have space to add another 2700 roms to my xbox and it seems pointless to be using the coinops or FBA sets as they already run their roms great.

Please list all the games that (are good) that you find run better on this emu or will only rum on this emu.

For ppl like myself who are going to use this with just a limited number of the very best roms this thread should prove useful!

Many thanks in advance guys

Ok then I'm certain that all Neo Geo games are better in FBA. So you could start with it. Also I guess Psyko, Cave games are more accurate. And are PGM games available in CoinOps, too ?

As not all the roms in the .dat file work.

some games refuse to even load, for example Tetris the grandmaster2 and the plus one.

some load but are not playable for example mtv rock-n-roll trivia (part 2) is listed in the dat but when it loads it just loops at the rom check screen so is not playable.

but they are listed in the .dat

I think it would be a good idea to list all the non working games, or working badly with sound (continental circusruns at an ok 25-30 fps but has loud humming sound all the way through). Then eliminate them from the .dat file.

and make a new .dat file with only the working ones. keep the main .dat file with all games listed, aswell though.

Fixed ^^ ---> http://neosource.1emu.net/forums/index.php...ic=1156.new#new

Same should happened with Gunbarich and Mahjong G-Taste.

kenshiro,

cool. how well would grandmaster2 run on xbox ?

All the Taito games run better using a version of Xbox MAME

I added the fix and it runs perfectly at 60 FPS almost the entire time. It will be supported in the next release. Thanks Kenshiro!

just fixed the Psyko to be less acurrate in CoinOPS like in this FBL...I tried it and notice one of the title layers in Striker games was missing the transpency and looks alot worse (clouds) so the driver needed some downscaling like raiden fighters did. PGM is in mame and seems fine...also I have no issues in any cave games, or neogeo games (except world hereos 1 and 2). Also fixed speed now in Metal Slug 2 and world hereos all it needs is a cpu speed up (set for that game only nes think mslug 2 has slowdown by default as it did in arcades)

I ran all my stuff from the 1600 unique games from my personal build and it only showed about 500 or less id say but it doesnt give me a number (although alot of the very best ones are there) also games like gunsmoke seemed to play at really bad speeds. I only took at quick look and play and also looked though the dats fpr a while

all videos seems to work on both no worries not to sure if it drops to use parent video if its a clone with no video but with the same naming it works fine

at present I only noticed later CPS2 better...Psyko better and World Hereos 1 and 2 it plays some of the games from FB 1.1 that mame cant at present and alot more genesis although megatech and megaplay is supported in mame (PS all those other drivers are being speed up with some help from one of the orig FBA dev)

wicked Thanks Kenshiro!



also are some games underclocked on the audio, to keep speed up or is that how they are normally ? ie Gradius III (japan) the music sounds slow, but the game plays smooth. and there was another but I cant remember it at the moment.


these are some of the "other" games that do not work or not work well, mostly sounds are messed up or just wont load.

gunbarich (crash not supported)
phoenix (amstar) (crash not supported)
crazy kong part II (set 1) (crash not supported)
donky kong junior (crash not supported)
lady bug (crash not supported)

alex kidd lost stars (sound messed up)
mtv rock-n-roll trivia (doesnt get by the rom check screen)
quarted (works but sound is messed up)
raffiesia (works smooth but sounds are distorted)
action fighter (works but has bad framerate)
alien syndrome (works but has slowdown on vertical movement)
super triv (works but no sound and in french)
gardia (works but sound is distorted)
hang on (works but analog control is digital only)

hellfire (works perfect but could use overclock or something to stop slowdown in game when firing, genesis version is smaller graphics but doesnt have the slowdown)

really needs to be in the FBL thread as these are fixes not what runs better....ive found alot of issues with other games but CPS2 and NeoGeo and Cave etc stuff is all good

what I found that runs better

World Hereos 1
World Hereos 2
all Psyko
all later CPS2

everything else doesnt run better IMO although it does run better with filters many games but without they run the same.

also it plays
Power Drift
Galaxy Force 2
AB Cop
Thunderblade
Genisis (although there are alot of the top genisis game supported on mame)
a few other games from FB

if you want the videos for any of those game let me know

If you want to Play

CPS1
CPS2
NeoGeo
Cave
Psykio
Toaplan
Most Konami
Genesis
Many Sega

FBL is the way to go. The GUI is better. The options are better. The speed is better (you will never play CPS1, CPS2, Cave, or NeoGeo games with software filters at 1080i and get 60 FPS on CoinOps). The rendering is better. The HD support is better. The controller support is better. I could go on.

Anything that FBL doesn't run correctly, doesn't run at all, or doesn't run at 60 FPS (like taito games) should be played on CoinOps or some other version of MAME as a backup.

well thats about as concise as it gets !

Agreed. There is also much shorter loading times, and the sets are the latest referenced in MAME, so definitely more accurate. That's a very important point.

BTW Nes, as i don't work today (sweet lol), i did some changes to Neogeo drivers. Please check your PM box later in the day. Moooooooo!

sounds interesting, what are the changes and how will they effect emulation ? , or is it secret ;)

I'm still keeping FBAxxxpro at the moment because you can overclock to remove slowdown, and also select neogeo console bios.
but i don't like not having highscore saving, are highscores saved in legends for games like capcom, Psikyo, cave etc... shooters ?

can't wait to try grandmaster2, if it gets added

I removed all the alpha blending effects in fba-xxx, otherwise the speed took a serious hit. I have a few ideas on adding it back in, but I can't assure that it will run 60/60.


Wow! A real live FBA dev? which one? lol

gogo is spending a little time but not much hes got a woman that keeps him busy. Hes a good guy those and giving me pointers when I see him to fix a few of these games.

Some of the stuff mentioned is emulated less accurately than CoinOPS but can be altered by filters I guess without speed drop, an example is after burner seems to play better on CoinOPS the frame rate is a little off in FBL but wasnt in FB there is quite a few games like this, ill stay out of this stuff as it can get controversal im sure but im testing what this thread topic is for my self. (sba if you want I have all the games I mentioned and find and the videos PM me sometime if you want)
I personally would ague that CoinOPS gui is easier to sort....and easier to use and the options are more refined to what people want to do if they just play games. An example is screen rotation is way more intuative id say in my build and does what it should but these are personal things I guess. I gave FBL to people I know and asked what they wanted me to add and after a little while of using this they didnt want me to add anything to CoinOPS (except for a few games like powerdrift) and are happy with the way the GUI in CoinOPS is for there HD TV and there cabs. Maybe its what they are used to, also they wouldnt want to micro manage screensizes, rotations, filters, autofires keymaps again for every game as they run more than 1200 unique games. Anyway I know your build will suit alot around with its per game setup and being set to later game sets alot more, and it really is nice. Im happy with my options and GUI personally and people I know are so I wont ague with whats better to me its horses for courses and ive agued this for years ive made my build to users of massive amounts of games...straight out of the box to work with stuff that is automatic and structured to do tasks they want to do, and removed as much micro management as I can.

If you have time iq would you like to optomise a few games properly and I know your good at it hehehehe

NeoGeo to me looked identical so I must be missing stuff what do the later sets fix?
also CPS2 looks identical to me apart from speed in some places what did they fix in later sets (although its switchble now thanks to iq)

PS it sadens me to see this talk about aspect ratio is is easy to test what video res you are running in and to set the flages to stretch,scale or zoom the 3d box ( I have set mine to stretch and it only autodetects 480i(then no NTSC/PAL detection)480p(knownsize as it has to be NTSC)and 720P(knowsize) anbd could fit aspect correction for known size stuff pretty easy, to do this I would add PAL/NTSC detection) all the source is in XBMC source code and open source, it really is just up to the emulator persons choice, you can see CoinOPS can detect screensive automatically just by going between low and hidef TVs and it automatically sets up screensizes...Virtual Mem etc everything.

BP,

sounds like the next version of Coinops is gonna be great

did you get the game list like nes type, no screens while scrolling, that is what makes the gui feel fast and smooth. would be so great to have that in coinops.

yes that was done the day I said I would

you have a bad hdd as it works good on a fast hdd, but I have one with a slow HDD and yes its unsmooth so the option is added (only when triggers are pressed own a certian distance the screen and video render are disabled)

While I truly believe CoinOps R3 ended up as the best version of MAME on the XBox, I think this post here from nes6502 pretty much nails it for the thread starter. There will obviously be some exceptions based on varying user preferences, but there really isn't any point in Xbox users pitting these two (or any Xbox apps) against one another.

The Xbox scene benefits either way by such marvelous efforts. I think of how far the scene has come since just a couple of years ago. Who would've thought we'd ever get this far.

sure I disagree slightly on some stuff like 720p users stuff as some stuff didnt work in that res on FBL and everything does in CoinOPS also CoinOPS is automatic in HD support...also some stuff in that list runs better on CoinOPS frame rate wise with no filters on both emus and not just one or 2 games but I dont really want to get into that I listed one or 2 previously check them out yourself. But anyways id like to actually make a streamline version for this emu as well as it does play some games that CoinOPS cant also it plays some games better (also on a code note its sperated xbe wise for the drivers as well so that is good for the future)
Anyways I dont want to ague its up to you guys on what you want and for you to look at anything the way you want it...ive run alot of tests with about 10 people and ill be making my own personal build (and looking at reason why some stuff runs better like posted early and it helped me fix the frame rate in CoinOPS) and I thank NES for adding stuff that will probably never run in CoinOPS never will and allowing some stuff like CPS2/NEOGeo and Pyk games to be able to run with filters I dont use them but if I wanted to id have to use this for sure. The control support is better in FBL? I dont think it supports usb or track or mouse for cab users and you cant define all keys that I can find also alot of games only play in digital or analog and not both (how do I fix that?) I dont think it supports global keys can that be altered as well?

Cheers im out of here but if anyone truely wants to make a small optimed build for the what the starter thread done ive assebled alot of stuff with the videos and pics and can work with you guys to help that side out...I dont want to ague about it. If thats the case then ill make my own personal build and all will be sweet in the world.

PS im looking and have achieved fixing some games that work better in FBA by looking at why they do but they will never run as well with filters on.

********Also id agree that NES6502 discription was 95 percent accurate and the best way to discribe the differences without getting into small specifics*************

What games are these? I want to split the games up and put the best ones under the respective emulator.

--dyst

Wow, I thought this was a thread about Final Burn Legends, not CoinOPS....

A list of games that FBL does better? what do you think that means..better than a monkey dancing to micheal jackson? hmmmm maybe someone needs stuff defined more clearly, it goes further than CoinOPS but not much further id say

But ill admit I did "A list of games that FBL does better"...than CoinOPS as thats what im checking you can check them against what you want really

also after testing 100s and 100s of games ive reached the end of my tests for personal benifits really...I now have my own informed option im sure you guys will work out "Games that run especially well on FBL, A list of games that FBL does better" just offering some help into this. So I have done my research if sbp wants my opion PM me if not all is good

Would you care to post or PM said list? I have no idea what the CPS1, CPS2, NeoGeo, Cave, Psykio, Toaplan, Most Konami games are? I wasn;t inclined to research it either so was hoping someone would actually LIST the names of games that are worth bothering with that I don't already have running. I never played these games in the arcade so ppl either have to tell me or I have to research. Since ppl have already played or researched them I thought this would be easy enough.

NES's answer was sufficient but without someone saying "hey man this games is cool, why don't you try it?" I think i'll just use the sega games I already got. They are pretty cool...

Hey guys...

How the classic Sega game SHADOW DANCER runs on FBL for you?
Is it running smooth, perfect?

I am curious to see something...
Just let me know about the performance of Shadow Dancer on your own FBL installs!

Thanks,
Cospefogo.

Yo Cos,
"shadow dancer" runs better in COINOPS, same thing for "shinobi","double dragon1" (you knew that) and also "gunsmoke" a lot of game from the "others" section in fact, they are slow and choppy

now all the neo geo,psykyo, cps1 and cps2 runs better in fba legends (even dragon blaze runs smooth in 720p with filters, excellent)

Hey Gilou,
Yes, I suspected that.
Thanks for your reply!

Best,
Cospefogo.

.....

........
add-on showcase patch?

Now back to LEGENDS!...
tried that game Gilou and even the sound/audio seems better compared to the NeoGenesis Emu...

was going to say not even esprade runs as well now as it used to in FBAxxx (CoinOPS now has faster frame rate than FBL but both are surpassed by FBAxxx)... but hey thats only the tip of the iceburg form my tests. Maybe others see stuff differently and ill let them see that I only used a few tools to test FPS

and here we go...there is alot FBL doesnt do that used to work in FBAxxx like screens rotation with the keys and only for vert games... and I cant tell the diff using debuger frame rate for CPS2 or CPS1 or NeoGeo speedwise maybe others say its smoother but I dont see it on any tests. It plays alot more games, although lots of them to me are buggy, or laggy compaired to Mame and it seems to only support about 1/5 of the parent games Mame does. It does offer a few more options in some ways alough it removes some very usefull ones from FBAxxx. It has some cool games added like powerdrift (this is awsome for sure) it plays pysko games better than any other emu thats the basis of my findings.

Im now testing it vs FBAxxx as well due to it seems that EMU has the heads up in race for alot of games that I test.
anyways this is silly for me to get into I know the risks....

as for a new build ... no time soon and in truth I actually hoped for something diff than FBL, Final Burn emu is more useable for my own personal requirements and a great achievement....for my benifit it hardly plays anything apart from FBAxxx stuff and that has allways been been better than CoinOPS in fact alot of stuff that works on FBAxxx is worse now. If you play arcade games alot thought the years there is only one way to enjoy most games ever made and thats MAME there are just 1000s of games missing and 100s and 100s of great games missing and no matter what I cant ever get over that fact so anything non mame will allways be secondary to me, its fine if its not to you guys to me it allways will be.

you guys that PM really should stand up for yourselves PMs are not the place to talk about your findings I know people think your wrong here and will voice it but hey you only live once speak up or forever hold your peace.....I cant help you guys

I'm loving FBL at the moment, the only weird thing I noticed is that daraku tenshi runs perfect in coinops on my 1.4g box, but not very well in fbl (although it works much better in fbl on a normal xbox?) optimisations i guess?

@ BP, I love coinops aswell, but does it have to be a competition? I still have coinops, fbl, final burn and even fba-xxx pro (2 versions!) on my xbox. there doesnt even need to be one "ultimate" emulator.

I'm eagerly awaiting showcase 2 though

Agreed, each emulator brings a bit of diversity to the table and that can only be a good thing

Good point. I'll go first.



What are you talking about? It runs at a solid 60 FPS with Filters in 1080i. That's called perfection. I can't even run 1941 in CoinOps with Filters in 480i and get 60 FPS.



What "tools" are you talking about? There's only one "tool". That's called the FPS display. You enable it and watch the number stay at 59.9 the entire time on FBL. There's your result. In fact you'll get that result in 90% of the games FBL plays with those settings.



That's one example and a poor one. That feature was virtually useless unless people were rotating their TVs. What are all the other examples of how FBA-XXX is better? Is it the kludge of a GUI? Is it how half the games crash when starting or quitting in 1080i? Is it the slow browsing with screenshots?



Of course it doesn't. It's not MAME. It's a highly specific emulator.




Such as?



The risks? You mean you might actually realize the following?

That I am an actual developer. I'm not a graphic artist who ripped off other peoples work (by fixing a few bugs) and calling the emulator my own (CoinOPS)?

You also might realize that releasing an emulator as 10 GB torrent full of ROMS is bad form?

Or maybe you'll realize that no one cares about all those stupid polls or "which is better" threads you get so caught up in.




So basically you are saying CoinOps is the best. FBA-XXX is 2nd. And FBL is a distant third? You really think FBA-XXX is even 1/10th as good as FBL? lol. You really don't like my emulator at all do you? I guess I can't blame you. FBL is such a breath of fresh air compared to FBA-XXX and CoinOPS, no wonder people like it so much. It must eat you up. But then again, how do you expect to compete with an actual developer? I'm not a graphic artist who hacks someone else's work and calls it my own. I did FBL from scratch. And I've only just begun.

Hey NES don't fall for the bait. This thread isn't about which emulator is better if you guys wanna discuss that pls start your own thread and please note I don't want any part of it!

This thread here is for a list of games that aren't available on either FBA, FB, or COINOPS. If no-one can provide such a list only the name of the makers then lets just forget about it eh, really can't be arsed with another slagging match. More than anything else its childish. And it makes me think ppl must be so obsessed with this stuff as to be maybe slightly autistic.

jeez im outta here what a pile of shite!

C'mon BP... show some love. You got so much to offer the scene. Do what I know you can do. Stop piling on that hate that you bring to yourself.

I mean what I say really...its not hate. Its what I see...I knew it would get a response but it is what it is.

FBL is better for speed of loading large games
new games with filters
1080i
it has a few new games that arent supported else where they are the Final Burn games (powerdrift,thunderblade,abcop,galaxy force 2 etc) sbq I havent really found any others

and for sure so in alot of ways I guess you can say its much better....but I stand by what I say and is what I see in my tests, as you guys see stuff much diff thats all good.


....debugging tools is fps...and min/max frames persecond

*Sigh*

Since this thread evolved into exactly what I knew it would, I will just say that after spending a tremendous amount of time with the original FBA-XXX and Pro derivatives for so long, it is painfully obvious that FBL blows both away. The emulation is more accurate, the GUI is an amazing leap forward, the built-in cheat database for all games is marvelous, the entire emulator itself is much more stable, the HDtv support with filters is dramatically improved, I could go on and on.....and on.

My personal friends can attest that I literally grew up in arcades -- that's where the stork dropped me off. These games are my legacy and I'm very aware of what should be what with the games FBL supports especially. Compared to the other emulators I have on my xbox, I can clearly tell that the games in FBL have superior emulation compared to any previous versions of FBA. FBL makes all of the older versions obsolete in my personal opinion, solely on how it runs the games. At the end of the day, the games are why I'm even interested in these emulators at all, CoinOps included. If a new version wasn't up to snuff in this area, I would most definitely say so regardless of who's working on the project.

As far as Mame on the Xbox is concerned, it's MAME on the Xbox. Final Burn is Final Burn. For as long as any kind of FBA exists on the XBOX, I will be using it to run CPS1, CPS2, Neogeo, Sega, Psikyo, Cave, and Toaplan based games. Nothing else can run those games as well.

One example someone could use against FBL is the slowdown in ESPrade. Like Metal Slug 2, that slight slowdown is accurate to the arcade version, which FBL is more faithful to. But unfortunately the slowdown and stuttering in CoinOps for many CPS2 games isn't accurate or faithful to the arcade hardware. There are more cases than that where it's better to use FBL. The R3 version of CoinOps (my personal fav version of MAME due to its HD support) is worth having around for the games that FBL doesn't support. R3 Showcase ended with a bang in my opinion. It was a good stopping point for CoinOps, as Night Slashers and Osman were added for those who really wanted to see them added.

FBL clearly is the best version of FBA on the Xbox (and best Xbox emulator period in my honest opinion). FBA-XXX Pro was my fav before, but FBL takes it to another level starting from it's core. The emulator core is updated, the drivers are updated, the romsets are no longer ancient, the HDtv support has been updated, the GUI is updated -- I just call it the way I see it. FBL's just got a lot going for it with such a polished first release. The talented people behind it bodes well for it's future and the Xbox scene in general.

It comes down to personal preference. We aren't going to have one emulator that does everything better than the apps which are dedicated to handling more specific tasks. We also aren't going to have an FBA on the Xbox that runs all of MAME's games. That was never the point.

Unfortunately, this topic was flamebait from the very first message and it has followed it's natural progression. Stuff like this is why I have so few posts in 3+ yrs here. I see no lack of appreciation for either emulator; and it really isn't even a comparison with a leveled playing field in the first place. In summation, I think most users can truly appreciate both apps. So this dispute is useless. I hope the thread starter can find the answers he seeks through all of the garbage in his way. Now if only we could get this thread closed.

Nice reply there nes...good job.
As expected, the thread was hijacked...not at all suprising really.
Keep up your good work nes, you are a true developer.

Though I don't mean to perpetuate this, I can say one thing for sure: nes6502 is not one to be trifled with. His recent reply is clear evidence that he walks softly but carries a big stick. Perhaps cannon would be more appropriate.

It's a fact that he knows what he's doing in all facets and his track record speaks for itself. We are all really blessed to have him.

Moooo a shotgun.

mooo? Ken has 2 Fully-automatic utters ready to bust...

ps.shhhh I hear hes a hy-breed part cow/part machine!

who was it again who wanted to play riot on the xbox???
well anyway they can play it on final burn legends and a good game it is to.....takes a bit of getting used to with attacks coming from the front and the back but loving it at the moment.

it wasn't me.

just my observations its nothing personal..... Its good to see everyone has an opinion as I knew you all would, most stuff I probably even agree with. I still know what I see in tests and will use Final Burn alot for sure and maybe FBL or FBAxxx for CPS2 mainly (although mostly CPS2 plays OKish for me but it doesnt run as well). In honesty ive got nothing to fight over im just a regular smuck putting in what I see and the way I see it...it means nothing but personally I know what ill mainly be playing and the reasons why and im just one person. I actually do like that you see it differently and are passionate about it.... one persons opinion means nothing really

Hey guys, I'm going to need you all to take these:



Ok, now that you've got those, go ahead and start whacking away at this:




Anywho, I'm going to go get a sammich. Good fucking lord it is turkey time.

LMAO!

good work nes! by far the best in quite some time. I must commend you on your hard work and can't wait to see what you do next!

XT- ooops i mean HF-

This sucks for us as a community. A list like this would help fans make the best use each individual emulator. Most people don't have the room to install both.

My plan is to upgrade my HDD so that I can have a full install of FBA 1.29c, CoinOPS, Final Burn 1.1, and Final Burn Legends. But again, most people can't install them all, so that's why a compatibility list would really help.

btw, I'm just an observer here. Watching all this bickering is like watching your parents fight.

Just a helpful idea -- even on a regular stock HDD we can install all of those apps as standalone first, then load the roms from DVDs. That's the way I did it back before I upgraded my HDD a few years ago. That method gives you full access to all the roms you want, even if you don't have the space.

I'm all about compatibility lists man. Too bad I'm really wrapped up in the whole Console emulation thing right now.

I have a compatibility list for MAME, but it's old. I don't even remember which name BP was using for the emulator back when I tested stuff out.

I could probably upload it if anyone were interested. Send me a PM if you are to remind me.

It would have to be updated.... games would have to be added and status would change on a lot of them.

But the basic framework is there.