I understand megaman is against the practice of linking warehousing sites, for obvious reasons. However I wish to change that. That decision was made by him and I am personally against it. We should really comment on this however, just to give this poll a start, I'll leave it at that.
Also, to clarify, warehousing sites are sites that host M.U.G.E.N. developers' works without asking their permission first. This would include characters, stages and other MUGEN-related works. I am pro warehousing sites because many great characters are lost because their original creators' sites often go down without further notice and it becomes increasingly difficult if not impossible for the common M.U.G.E.N. user to get a hold of them. Naturally, this would not go against the rule that states that, should you release a mugen creation, you'd have to ask for the author's permission to release the game in the first place. Discuss.
edit: I accidentally null voted instead of voting for Yes. 1emu really needs a "view results" that doesn't destroy your right to vote. so remember to add 1 to the yes votes always when counting.
Full Version: Warehousing sites
I absolutely would.
QUOTE (teck64 @ Jan 7 2008, 09:19 PM) 
I really don't see whats the big flocking deal. Its better for the community IMO.
My sentiments exactly. It's quite similar to emulation if you ask me.
I dun really mess with mugen anymore but I know how hard it can be to find what you are looking for. authors drop out of site and then all the sudden no one is supposed to use thier stuff unless they know someone who has it. it's ridiculous. once it is out there. it should be out there for everyone. thats kind of the point of emulation and mugen I think.
so yeah I vote yes.
so yeah I vote yes.
I voted no.
My 2 cents about all this;
Any site that compiles author's work without their permission is wrong, and should not be supported. Maybe many MUGEN asset creators disappear because the scene doesn't properly respect their creations? You may think that not listing warehousing sites is a disservice to the end users, but their existence might be an even bigger deterrent to those people out there creating the content.
I don't know if this is the case with MUGEN or not, but on moral grounds I have to say no; keep them off 1emu.
My 2 cents about all this;
Any site that compiles author's work without their permission is wrong, and should not be supported. Maybe many MUGEN asset creators disappear because the scene doesn't properly respect their creations? You may think that not listing warehousing sites is a disservice to the end users, but their existence might be an even bigger deterrent to those people out there creating the content.
I don't know if this is the case with MUGEN or not, but on moral grounds I have to say no; keep them off 1emu.
QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Jan 7 2008, 10:46 PM)
I voted no.
My 2 cents about all this;
Any site that compiles author's work without their permission is wrong, and should not be supported. Maybe many MUGEN asset creators disappear because the scene doesn't properly respect their creations? You may think that not listing warehousing sites is a disservice to the end users, but their existence might be an even bigger deterrent to those people out there creating the content.
I don't know if this is the case with MUGEN or not, but on moral grounds I have to say no; keep them off 1emu.
My 2 cents about all this;
Any site that compiles author's work without their permission is wrong, and should not be supported. Maybe many MUGEN asset creators disappear because the scene doesn't properly respect their creations? You may think that not listing warehousing sites is a disservice to the end users, but their existence might be an even bigger deterrent to those people out there creating the content.
I don't know if this is the case with MUGEN or not, but on moral grounds I have to say no; keep them off 1emu.
Since I'm not that much of a MUGEN aficionado, my opinion may be silly but so far I doubt that hosting their work without their permission would cause them to disappear completely. As I see it, when an author gets tired of updating his characters or other MUGEN work, he leaves it on his site. After a while that site may go down because of hosting costs. Then those works become extremely hard to get and in the end, isn't that the purpose anyway? It's certainly very sad when great characters disappear because of their creator's lack of interest.
Let's be realistic here, no one is going to sue anyone for hosting their MUGEN works, simply because 80% of them are sprite rips that actually belong to a real company, hence not the MUGEN developer's original property. That's why MUGEN developers don't actually sell their works. They'd get a bunch of legal problems in heartbeat from the actual owners.
On the other hand this doesn't stand for completely original MUGEN characters like the late Reuben Kee's Dragon Claw character. That's actually 100% original and copyrighted. Not sure how the climate is around major sprite edits tho, like making a character from Ryu's stance sprite but completely redrawing it inside so it looks like something else, only with Ryu's outline.
Regarding the existence of warehouse sites that would detere MUGEN developers from releasing their work, I fail to see how they'd actually do that.
It's all a matter of respect though. People spend time and energy making things. Whether they are derivative works or not, the authors deserve to be respected, credited and asked for permission, if not compensated. Its that simple- warehousing sites could seek that permission if they could be bothered.
Just because you necessarily relinquish some measure of control over work when you post on the net, other people shouldn't have the right to do whatever they want with it. I didn't say lawsuits would come into it, but that's a good illustration of my point. Let's say some bozo somewhere prints off a disc with a lot of MUGEN assets and sells it for a sum money, none of which finds its way to the individual authors? That much is obviously unfair- the only difference between that scenario and warehousing the files is that the theft becomes intellectual- the authors are still being robbed of something.
So again I don't know jack all about MUGEN but on principle archiving other people's stuff without their consent is irresponsible. I stand by my no. If this kind of thing happened to anything I authored, it would absolutely deter me from releasing any more work in the same channels.
Just because you necessarily relinquish some measure of control over work when you post on the net, other people shouldn't have the right to do whatever they want with it. I didn't say lawsuits would come into it, but that's a good illustration of my point. Let's say some bozo somewhere prints off a disc with a lot of MUGEN assets and sells it for a sum money, none of which finds its way to the individual authors? That much is obviously unfair- the only difference between that scenario and warehousing the files is that the theft becomes intellectual- the authors are still being robbed of something.
So again I don't know jack all about MUGEN but on principle archiving other people's stuff without their consent is irresponsible. I stand by my no. If this kind of thing happened to anything I authored, it would absolutely deter me from releasing any more work in the same channels.
That's true but the "bozo" scenario happens either way. That's really besides the point, considering we're asking just to allow the linking to warehousing sites. As well as the fact that I'm not advocating doing whatever we want with the developer's work, I'm simply saying that we should be able to actually play with it, in this case, play with the characters/stages etc., because I still fail to see how, by simply making the developer's work more widespread and available, we'd be automatically disrespecting and discrediting him etc.
I am with you Axl, besides, linking to a warehousing site it;s just that, then in the end it comes to everyones personal choice, in case the author still has a site then you will always visit that site first since there you will be able to find the his latest works instead of getting some old work somewhere else
QUOTE (alexis @ Jan 11 2008, 05:02 PM)
I am with you Axl, besides, linking to a warehousing site it;s just that, then in the end it comes to everyones personal choice, in case the author still has a site then you will always visit that site first since there you will be able to find the his latest works instead of getting some old work somewhere else
My point exactly, in the end, if you care about updating your MUGEN, you'll always visit author's sites regularly for updates anyway. My main problem here is that, you can't just go googling for MUGEN developers instantly. It's they were all put in a list of sites at least, it would be so much easier.
It's looks like BlackKnight is the only one here with some sense.
from reviewing this topic, you seem like that you are desperate and wiling to take whatever means to get what you want despite the creators wishes, but apparently it don't matter you you.
Just as long as you get what you want, the hell what others thinks.
As far as rules and such being made about certain creations. Those creators, such as myself, have that right!
We take the time out of our daily schedule to create such things and no its not an easy task. Let me clear something up, We as creators make stuff for mugen because we find it an enjoyable hobby, we don't create for you, but we may share our creations with the internet. Thats our choice and all we ask for something simple as do not distribute our works out side of our site.
Now you speak of creations and authors leaving the scene without notice. Ever take a minute and think what would be the cause behind that? You topic fully support what I just explained.
Anyway I am definitely against this and you know whats the funny part of all of this?
You guys find a leaked character warehoused on a site, you break your necks to get that creation, then you start crying about its broken or crappy.
What you expect from betas being leaked by random jerks?
from reviewing this topic, you seem like that you are desperate and wiling to take whatever means to get what you want despite the creators wishes, but apparently it don't matter you you.
Just as long as you get what you want, the hell what others thinks.
As far as rules and such being made about certain creations. Those creators, such as myself, have that right!
We take the time out of our daily schedule to create such things and no its not an easy task. Let me clear something up, We as creators make stuff for mugen because we find it an enjoyable hobby, we don't create for you, but we may share our creations with the internet. Thats our choice and all we ask for something simple as do not distribute our works out side of our site.
Now you speak of creations and authors leaving the scene without notice. Ever take a minute and think what would be the cause behind that? You topic fully support what I just explained.
Anyway I am definitely against this and you know whats the funny part of all of this?
You guys find a leaked character warehoused on a site, you break your necks to get that creation, then you start crying about its broken or crappy.
What you expect from betas being leaked by random jerks?
Did you ask the artists at Capcom, SNK, etc to rip their artwork, sprites and animate them to use in another program?
QUOTE
Controversy over Redistribution of M.U.G.E.N Works
There has been debate over the act of hosting the works of content creators for the engine without consent from them, a practice dubbed "warehousing." Warehouses and content 'megapacks' are generally seen as ideal for new engine users who are able to obtain a lot of usable content quickly with little searching. Arguments have risen against this practice. Since the "warehouse" would host all the content they previously downloaded, the content users are unaware of the original source of the content and possibly miss any patches or updates related to each piece of content. Another issue stems from the fact that many authors gain revenue in one form or another by visitors to their sites, be it by advertising banners on their site or merchandising (such as that sold by Mugen Institute for their original Dragon Claw character.) The use of "warehousing" has the potential to drop the amount of visitors to the author's web site, resulting in a loss of feedback, distribution of updates, or as in the case of Mugen Institute a possible loss of revenue.
There is some controversy on the legality of warehouses. Although most of the authors have not registered copyrights pertaining to the code or graphics used to create the content, much like hosting a videogame FAQ it is considered in violation of the author's copyright unless permission to host is given.[28] The debate ranges from original design by authors as well as derivative works or fan art often taken directly from previously released video game characters.[29] A violation of copyright of the original designs would be where the original author has good standing to legally sue an offending web host if the correct documentation was filed before the release of the content.[30] Typically it is argued that legal action is not sought for the misuse of most M.U.G.E.N creations because the origin of sprites and sounds has been ripped from commercial games even though the program code is crafted from scratch or templates.
The debate over warehousing has been long standing, but several key arguments stand out:
* The argument that the engine itself is freeware due to flockt not being required or asked for and the timeout function of the program still leaves it fully functional, and thus covered under freeware laws. In reply, opponents state due to the license agreement[5] obtained by Elecbyte, which in part may still apply, M.U.G.E.N itself is actually shareware, and covered under the laws governing such.[15]
* The argument that when copyrighted characters or sprites such as those owned by Capcom or SNK are used in the works, the works themselves are a violation of copyright and thus any claims are to be argued as null and void. Capcom, SNK and other companies have not shown any ill will towards those using sprites/sounds from their games when creating content for the engine, despite being aware of the practice for several years. However, French Bread previously had a notice on one of their older websites that expressed not to convert material found in their games.
* Some sites host original characters generated by the author themselves (such as those by Reu or Rikard), in which case the characters are still copyright of their authors. The copyright on the code itself is the key factor here, though the claim of copyright has been misinterpreted to cover the sprites or the character concept.
As M.U.G.E.N. add-on creator Igniz once stated at the MugenBR forums:
"Imagine that you're in school. Now, let's take that Capcom, SNK and the rest are the text books. Now imagine that a M.U.G.E.N. character is your classmate's homework. You get the rest."
However, people who don't support this stance cite Elecbyte's official statement in the enclosed documentation that "the reason for the open file formats is so that you can share techniques with other developers."[15] Yet there has been a great deal of controversy regarding permission (or lack thereof) between coders.
There has been debate over the act of hosting the works of content creators for the engine without consent from them, a practice dubbed "warehousing." Warehouses and content 'megapacks' are generally seen as ideal for new engine users who are able to obtain a lot of usable content quickly with little searching. Arguments have risen against this practice. Since the "warehouse" would host all the content they previously downloaded, the content users are unaware of the original source of the content and possibly miss any patches or updates related to each piece of content. Another issue stems from the fact that many authors gain revenue in one form or another by visitors to their sites, be it by advertising banners on their site or merchandising (such as that sold by Mugen Institute for their original Dragon Claw character.) The use of "warehousing" has the potential to drop the amount of visitors to the author's web site, resulting in a loss of feedback, distribution of updates, or as in the case of Mugen Institute a possible loss of revenue.
There is some controversy on the legality of warehouses. Although most of the authors have not registered copyrights pertaining to the code or graphics used to create the content, much like hosting a videogame FAQ it is considered in violation of the author's copyright unless permission to host is given.[28] The debate ranges from original design by authors as well as derivative works or fan art often taken directly from previously released video game characters.[29] A violation of copyright of the original designs would be where the original author has good standing to legally sue an offending web host if the correct documentation was filed before the release of the content.[30] Typically it is argued that legal action is not sought for the misuse of most M.U.G.E.N creations because the origin of sprites and sounds has been ripped from commercial games even though the program code is crafted from scratch or templates.
The debate over warehousing has been long standing, but several key arguments stand out:
* The argument that the engine itself is freeware due to flockt not being required or asked for and the timeout function of the program still leaves it fully functional, and thus covered under freeware laws. In reply, opponents state due to the license agreement[5] obtained by Elecbyte, which in part may still apply, M.U.G.E.N itself is actually shareware, and covered under the laws governing such.[15]
* The argument that when copyrighted characters or sprites such as those owned by Capcom or SNK are used in the works, the works themselves are a violation of copyright and thus any claims are to be argued as null and void. Capcom, SNK and other companies have not shown any ill will towards those using sprites/sounds from their games when creating content for the engine, despite being aware of the practice for several years. However, French Bread previously had a notice on one of their older websites that expressed not to convert material found in their games.
* Some sites host original characters generated by the author themselves (such as those by Reu or Rikard), in which case the characters are still copyright of their authors. The copyright on the code itself is the key factor here, though the claim of copyright has been misinterpreted to cover the sprites or the character concept.
As M.U.G.E.N. add-on creator Igniz once stated at the MugenBR forums:
"Imagine that you're in school. Now, let's take that Capcom, SNK and the rest are the text books. Now imagine that a M.U.G.E.N. character is your classmate's homework. You get the rest."
However, people who don't support this stance cite Elecbyte's official statement in the enclosed documentation that "the reason for the open file formats is so that you can share techniques with other developers."[15] Yet there has been a great deal of controversy regarding permission (or lack thereof) between coders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.G.E.N
QUOTE (-SyN- @ Jan 13 2008, 10:41 PM)
It's looks like BlackKnight is the only one here with some sense.
from reviewing this topic, you seem like that you are desperate and wiling to take whatever means to get what you want despite the creators wishes, but apparently it don't matter you you.
Just as long as you get what you want, the hell what others thinks.
As far as rules and such being made about certain creations. Those creators, such as myself, have that right!
We take the time out of our daily schedule to create such things and no its not an easy task. Let me clear something up, We as creators make stuff for mugen because we find it an enjoyable hobby, we don't create for you, but we may share our creations with the internet. Thats our choice and all we ask for something simple as do not distribute our works out side of our site.
Now you speak of creations and authors leaving the scene without notice. Ever take a minute and think what would be the cause behind that? You topic fully support what I just explained.
Anyway I am definitely against this and you know whats the funny part of all of this?
You guys find a leaked character warehoused on a site, you break your necks to get that creation, then you start crying about its broken or crappy.
What you expect from betas being leaked by random jerks?
from reviewing this topic, you seem like that you are desperate and wiling to take whatever means to get what you want despite the creators wishes, but apparently it don't matter you you.
Just as long as you get what you want, the hell what others thinks.
As far as rules and such being made about certain creations. Those creators, such as myself, have that right!
We take the time out of our daily schedule to create such things and no its not an easy task. Let me clear something up, We as creators make stuff for mugen because we find it an enjoyable hobby, we don't create for you, but we may share our creations with the internet. Thats our choice and all we ask for something simple as do not distribute our works out side of our site.
Now you speak of creations and authors leaving the scene without notice. Ever take a minute and think what would be the cause behind that? You topic fully support what I just explained.
Anyway I am definitely against this and you know whats the funny part of all of this?
You guys find a leaked character warehoused on a site, you break your necks to get that creation, then you start crying about its broken or crappy.
What you expect from betas being leaked by random jerks?
I like how you assume things about me so easily without even a shred of evidence. I especially enjoy how you generalize and shove me in the same boat with all the other dudes. Oh, how I enjoy people who jump on bandwagons without even so much of an inkling of forethought or analysis.
So you're saying creators leave the scene because one of their works, which they decided to share with the Internet, is being distributed to a greater extent ON the Internet? See what I did there?
Let me clear some things up for you my friend. I'm not much of a MUGEN character collector. I have stuff to do, just as you do. And I take time away from that stuff to give a crap about your work. This is how it is. And the same goes for other people. And people would pay a lot more attention to your work if they could actually analyze it for themselves. The only real reason MUGEN developers leave the scene is because no one gives a crap about their work. And you know why? Because we can't actually see what he/she did. We can't actually appreciate that and give him credit for it.
But you already knew that, seeing as you apparently know everything about me. Why else would you decide it was a good idea to throw me, and/or any of the other posters that are for this change, in the same boat as every other retard in the MUGEN scene. Maturity for the win yo.
To answer your last two sentences, you obviously didn't read my previous post. And for the record, I could care less if this change was implemented or not. There's nothing a good google search can't dig up anyway. This would have just facilitated it and would've allowed us to share between ourselves like a community, further enhancing my point stated above.
QUOTE (Gryph @ Jan 13 2008, 06:30 PM)
Did you ask the artists at Capcom, SNK, etc to rip their artwork, sprites and animate them to use in another program?
Actually Yes!
That issue was discussed plenty of times and at plenty of places. Those companies consider mugen as fan art and see nothing wrong with it.
Check mugen guild and Randomselect for more info pertaining to that.
-edit-
go to http://randomselect.i-xcell.com and look for news post March 18, 2007
QUOTE
March 18, 2007
Alright, let's cut to the chase. Messatsu recently emailed Capcom and SNK to see what their official stance is on stuff like M.U.G.E.N. Capcom's was what we all expect: it's fan art as long as you don't sell it. SNKP's was different: they said no to having their stuff used in games they didn't make. But before everyone screams the sky is falling, it should be pointed out this was SNKP's USA branch, and the validity of them having any say was brought into question because they 'don't make the games' and are 'just the USA branch'. Messatsu in turn emailed the Japan branch, and I sent a more detailed email to the USA one. No reply either way.
So all's good, right? Depends. To me, getting told no and then not getting any further reply isn't exactly a sign that it's all okay. Even the community doesn't do that. So if I ignore this, I'm a hypocrite for telling people no and ignoring it. I can't bring myself to do that, I respect the people in the community too much for that. The email Messatsu sent asked about "non-profit games", which doesn't exactly leave a lot of wiggle room for statements: mugen is in itself been turned into a game, and there are still plenty of mugen full games that utilize SNK stuff. And no this isn't in thread of some lawsuit or something, it's more a case where what's right is what's right.
So to this extent the database will have the SNK sections severed, excluding RotD (SNKP holds no rights to this game or the characters), CvS chars (they were licensed to capcom who has in turn given us permission anyway, so meh), and stuff like Rikard's work which would be insane to block as it'd be pretty much saying "you can't even do SNK shading style! >:(". Yeah.
Mine, Rolento's, Helios's, Psicoso's, and ZSabreUser's SNK stuff is gone also. Whether other hostees follow suit is up to them. I'm not going to force my morals onto these folks. And that goes for the rest of the community too: if you take this as law or not is your choice, I'm not going to dictate things for you.
On the bright side of it all, at least as Rolento put it RS will be a lot easier to update.
March 21, 2007
Behold the hard earned reply, and all that good jazz. Oh yeah, you can't call creators thieves anymore for this stuff.
The rest of RS will be restored tonight. Hopefully. Should be. Either way thanks for those of you who supported us, and those who threw a tantrum and sent death threats, you may now go ---- yourselves. ;D
Alright, let's cut to the chase. Messatsu recently emailed Capcom and SNK to see what their official stance is on stuff like M.U.G.E.N. Capcom's was what we all expect: it's fan art as long as you don't sell it. SNKP's was different: they said no to having their stuff used in games they didn't make. But before everyone screams the sky is falling, it should be pointed out this was SNKP's USA branch, and the validity of them having any say was brought into question because they 'don't make the games' and are 'just the USA branch'. Messatsu in turn emailed the Japan branch, and I sent a more detailed email to the USA one. No reply either way.
So all's good, right? Depends. To me, getting told no and then not getting any further reply isn't exactly a sign that it's all okay. Even the community doesn't do that. So if I ignore this, I'm a hypocrite for telling people no and ignoring it. I can't bring myself to do that, I respect the people in the community too much for that. The email Messatsu sent asked about "non-profit games", which doesn't exactly leave a lot of wiggle room for statements: mugen is in itself been turned into a game, and there are still plenty of mugen full games that utilize SNK stuff. And no this isn't in thread of some lawsuit or something, it's more a case where what's right is what's right.
So to this extent the database will have the SNK sections severed, excluding RotD (SNKP holds no rights to this game or the characters), CvS chars (they were licensed to capcom who has in turn given us permission anyway, so meh), and stuff like Rikard's work which would be insane to block as it'd be pretty much saying "you can't even do SNK shading style! >:(". Yeah.
Mine, Rolento's, Helios's, Psicoso's, and ZSabreUser's SNK stuff is gone also. Whether other hostees follow suit is up to them. I'm not going to force my morals onto these folks. And that goes for the rest of the community too: if you take this as law or not is your choice, I'm not going to dictate things for you.
On the bright side of it all, at least as Rolento put it RS will be a lot easier to update.
March 21, 2007
Behold the hard earned reply, and all that good jazz. Oh yeah, you can't call creators thieves anymore for this stuff.
The rest of RS will be restored tonight. Hopefully. Should be. Either way thanks for those of you who supported us, and those who threw a tantrum and sent death threats, you may now go ---- yourselves. ;D
Solved that problem, now on to the next.
@ Axl
QUOTE
Let me clear some things up for you my friend. I'm not much of a MUGEN character collector. I have stuff to do, just as you do. And I take time away from that stuff to give a crap about your work. This is how it is. And the same goes for other people. And people would pay a lot more attention to your work if they could actually analyze it for themselves.
Not a valid excuse.
QUOTE
I have stuff to do, just as you do.
Umm correction, I create stuff, you leech stuff. HUGE difference.
QUOTE
But you already knew that, seeing as you apparently know everything about me. Why else would you decide it was a good idea to throw me, and/or any of the other posters that are for this change, in the same boat as every other retard in the MUGEN scene. Maturity for the win yo.
No I don't know anything about you, but I know the path you follow by starting a thread like this.
QUOTE
To answer your last two sentences, you obviously didn't read my previous post. And for the record, I could care less if this change was implemented or not. There's nothing a good google search can't dig up anyway. This would have just facilitated it and would've allowed us to share between ourselves like a community, further enhancing my point stated above.
Um, I clearly read this post and from your view behind it, you can care less and disrespect an authors wishes.
QUOTE
The only real reason MUGEN developers leave the scene is because no one gives a crap about their work.
Logic Error!
I have been involved in Mugen since 99/2000 because of people like you and threads like this, I seen many leave and go private and when that happens, people like you are the first to complain about it not realizing that people like you are the cause.
At the moment it seems that unless you get the author's permission first, you can't distribute it.
I think it should be the other way around, that is, it can be distributed unless the author explicitly says otherwise either on his site or by a post in a recognised MUGEN forum.
This would take care of sites dying, because the stop notice disappears along with the site. If it was in a forum, it needs to be updated (say) every 3 years or it expires.
I'd also insist that every distribution of anything contain full credits to the original author(s), together with any limitations or licences as the author requires.
That should keep everyone happy.
I think it should be the other way around, that is, it can be distributed unless the author explicitly says otherwise either on his site or by a post in a recognised MUGEN forum.
This would take care of sites dying, because the stop notice disappears along with the site. If it was in a forum, it needs to be updated (say) every 3 years or it expires.
I'd also insist that every distribution of anything contain full credits to the original author(s), together with any limitations or licences as the author requires.
That should keep everyone happy.
I'm not here trying to cause problems with anyone but my stance as a creator and seeing topics like this isn't pleasant to the eyes of those who hold a creator status.
The main reason is that I myself have seen my works distributed outside of my website without my consent for whatever reason and myself being the author, I have the right to stress my materials which I spent my time to create and chose to share meaning released it for download to be made available at my site alone.
Not just me but I can name plenty of others who feel the same as I do.
As soon as we see the name "warehouse" yep we go into a rant for those warehousers or any that falls in that category can care less about whate we ask, but expect us to continue to create as if they think we make stuff for them, which we dont.
We create for ourselves and we decide if we want to openly share our materials with the community.
The main reason is that I myself have seen my works distributed outside of my website without my consent for whatever reason and myself being the author, I have the right to stress my materials which I spent my time to create and chose to share meaning released it for download to be made available at my site alone.
Not just me but I can name plenty of others who feel the same as I do.
As soon as we see the name "warehouse" yep we go into a rant for those warehousers or any that falls in that category can care less about whate we ask, but expect us to continue to create as if they think we make stuff for them, which we dont.
We create for ourselves and we decide if we want to openly share our materials with the community.
QUOTE (-SyN- @ Jan 14 2008, 07:30 PM)
The main reason is that I myself have seen my works distributed outside of my website without my consent for whatever reason and myself being the author, I have the right to stress my materials which I spent my time to create and chose to share meaning released it for download to be made available at my site alone.
That is fine, while you still hold an interest in MUGEN. I'm with you 100% that you can control the methods of distribution.
But, what happens if you lose interest, die, or whatever. Eventually your site disappears and your stuff is lost to the world because of your previous restrictions.
That's where my idea takes over. Because you've lost interest, naturally you no longer care what happens with it.
QUOTE
But, what happens if you lose interest, die, or whatever. Eventually your site disappears and your stuff is lost to the world because of your previous restrictions.
That's where my idea takes over. Because you've lost interest, naturally you no longer care what happens with it.
That's where my idea takes over. Because you've lost interest, naturally you no longer care what happens with it.
True to a certain extent.
I have a good example. Reu.
He recently died due to a boating accident. He created the characters Evil Ken, Evil Ryu and his original character Dragon Claw.
All three of those characters are being warehoused. Evil ken and Evil ryu is a different story but Dragon claw is his original creation and believe it or not, its also copyrighted and not made to be distributed outside of his website which is still up btw and operated by his friends from his company Pathos and at a music remix community he was affiliated with.
where the stance on that?
-edit-
when entering the characters download page, DragonClaw is the only character you will find the phrase below before downloading.
Dragon Claw 1.1 WINMUGEN/LINMUGEN (14/03/06)
Disclaimer: All downloads are for personal use only. By clicking the following links you agree not to copy, modify, distribute or sell the whole or parts of the files without written permission of the Reuben Kee. This includes hosting of the whole or parts of the file on any other server or the usage of any form of graphics or sound. Should you agree to all these terms, you may download the M.U.G.E.N file. Dragon Claw and all likeness are copyright 2005-2008 Reuben Kee.
QUOTE (Robert @ Jan 14 2008, 06:39 PM)
That's where my idea takes over. Because you've lost interest, naturally you no longer care what happens with it.
That's an illogical assumption though. An author leaving doesn't necessarily mean they have lost interest and leaving itself shouldn't automatically relinquish control of their creations to the public domain. Family issues, studies, travel etc. could all account for an absence from the scene- however none of those things should impact the basic rights they have over their work.
Thats why I said I agree to a certain extent. I seen ppl leave suddenly without leaving a word. Like BlackKnight said, some retired from mugen and moved on as well as real life issues might occur.
Regardless, copy written materials or not, Those who create works for mugen still holds that right for their works not to be distributed, modified, etc outside of their sites if they ask for such a thing.
Warehousing is definitely something many of us on my end do not condone!
Regardless, copy written materials or not, Those who create works for mugen still holds that right for their works not to be distributed, modified, etc outside of their sites if they ask for such a thing.
Warehousing is definitely something many of us on my end do not condone!
BK: As long as they update a notice on a MUGEN site every 3 years (that's a lot of time!), he can protect his work. If he doesn't care enough to do that, then he doesn't care about his work either.
Syn: The site is still up with the restrictions in place. That is still valid to me. When the site eventually goes under, then the restriction goes as well.
Also if someone has copyrighted something with the relevant copyright office, and covering all nations, then obviously the law would cover what happens as well.
Syn: The site is still up with the restrictions in place. That is still valid to me. When the site eventually goes under, then the restriction goes as well.
Also if someone has copyrighted something with the relevant copyright office, and covering all nations, then obviously the law would cover what happens as well.
Don't ownership rights automatically extend 40 years after the death of / last expression of ownership by the creator, legally speaking?
Only if they registered it with the copyright office in your country.
Or in a country with which your country recognises the copyrights registered in that other country.
There's no LEGAL obligation otherwise.
All the so-called copyright we talk about is usually only in a moral sense - it isn't legally binding.
Or in a country with which your country recognises the copyrights registered in that other country.
There's no LEGAL obligation otherwise.
All the so-called copyright we talk about is usually only in a moral sense - it isn't legally binding.
Copyright is legally bound at the time of the first expression of an idea. It doesn't have to be registered to be effectual.
well lets put it in music terms.. lets say when the beatles broke up they treated those albums like mugen characters. they'd be gone forever. and there is no way in hell the artists that created that music would want that.
as an artist my self I understand wanting control and credit. but to horde a creation goes against the artistic spirit. something an art teacher told me along time ago is "it only belongs to you until you've created it" meaning once the piece of art is done it really belongs to the world. kind of a hippy statement I know, but I believe it's true.
now I could care less if these characters get released or not. I don't mess with mugen. I'm just commenting on the underlying tone of the thread. if your art (and I am unconvinced ripping sprites and coding them for mugen is art.) is paying the bills you have more room to biatch.
as a side comment about capcom and snk saying mugen is fan art. hahah. I have a hard time believing that. every ripped sprite came from an illegal rom. somehow these illegal roms images are transformed into fan art with a sprite ripper and a txt file. O...K....
as an artist my self I understand wanting control and credit. but to horde a creation goes against the artistic spirit. something an art teacher told me along time ago is "it only belongs to you until you've created it" meaning once the piece of art is done it really belongs to the world. kind of a hippy statement I know, but I believe it's true.
now I could care less if these characters get released or not. I don't mess with mugen. I'm just commenting on the underlying tone of the thread. if your art (and I am unconvinced ripping sprites and coding them for mugen is art.) is paying the bills you have more room to biatch.
as a side comment about capcom and snk saying mugen is fan art. hahah. I have a hard time believing that. every ripped sprite came from an illegal rom. somehow these illegal roms images are transformed into fan art with a sprite ripper and a txt file. O...K....
I agree with inky's idea though. Most creators aren't artists necessarily though.
But people usually just jump on the bandwagon like every person who's posted faq-text on gamefaqs.
Morally speaking, since you created it, it's yours. But if you haven't registered it with a copyright office, then I believe you don't care enough about your work. From a legal standpoint, if it's not an original character, it's not yours anyway. All that belongs to you is the bit of coding that went into it.
I myself plan to start creating MUGEN characters sometime this year. "Creating" is an overstatement since they'll be SNK sprite rips mostly, due ot SNK's sheer awesomeness. At that time, should I create a site and host them there, I will have no problem whatsoever to them being on warehouses. Because, as a creator, I create for the people. I use it as a medium to share my experience. And you know why I will do that? Because I actually thought this through and analyzed it, and I see it as nothing more than a selfish, childish, arrogant tantrum. I would know, I'm one of the most arrogant persons I know. And if they care enough about my work, they'll update their characters when they feel like it.
@Syn
"Not a valid excuse." Actually if you read what I said thoroughly, without flipping out and instantly replying with that inane line, you'd see it's validity
"Umm correction, I create stuff, you leech stuff. HUGE difference." Get over yourself. Reading comprehension must be rare these days... To make it clearer for you, "I have stuff to do" refers to OTHER, non-MUGEN related stuff.
"Um, I clearly read this post and from your view behind it, you can care less and disrespect an authors wishes." Care less? Hah... we should really grab a beer sometime, you'll be in shock after I'm done with you. Yes, so I go against their view and find their characters on warehousing sites. That's because I consider it inane. And you want to know what I do afterwards? I find that creator's web site, bookmark it and check it one or twice a week for updates. I never once will refuse to give him credit for his work, or to provide FEEDBACK. Maybe you've had some bad experiences about kiddies crying when your AI beat their Super Mega Shin Saiya-jin Akuma or something and you decided to generalize that we all whine and biatch about how crappy your work is. To quote you "logic error!" or as I like to put it "epic fail". that or your work really does suck and the kiddies found it better to moan than to provide input on why it sucks. I wouldn't know, I've never seen your work.
Now, on to explaining why I think this entire thing is just an arrogant tantrum. Because of pride. They put together something, regardless of how stolen it is, and all of a sudden "you're the man". Only "the man" decides when he may step down from his golden throne and present us with his gifts of great coding and sprite stitching (Orochi Kyo or some other crap like that...). Well guess, what, it all boils down to, if they're going to be asses about it, then I have nothing more I want to say to them.
But people usually just jump on the bandwagon like every person who's posted faq-text on gamefaqs.
Morally speaking, since you created it, it's yours. But if you haven't registered it with a copyright office, then I believe you don't care enough about your work. From a legal standpoint, if it's not an original character, it's not yours anyway. All that belongs to you is the bit of coding that went into it.
I myself plan to start creating MUGEN characters sometime this year. "Creating" is an overstatement since they'll be SNK sprite rips mostly, due ot SNK's sheer awesomeness. At that time, should I create a site and host them there, I will have no problem whatsoever to them being on warehouses. Because, as a creator, I create for the people. I use it as a medium to share my experience. And you know why I will do that? Because I actually thought this through and analyzed it, and I see it as nothing more than a selfish, childish, arrogant tantrum. I would know, I'm one of the most arrogant persons I know. And if they care enough about my work, they'll update their characters when they feel like it.
@Syn
"Not a valid excuse." Actually if you read what I said thoroughly, without flipping out and instantly replying with that inane line, you'd see it's validity
"Umm correction, I create stuff, you leech stuff. HUGE difference." Get over yourself. Reading comprehension must be rare these days... To make it clearer for you, "I have stuff to do" refers to OTHER, non-MUGEN related stuff.
"Um, I clearly read this post and from your view behind it, you can care less and disrespect an authors wishes." Care less? Hah... we should really grab a beer sometime, you'll be in shock after I'm done with you. Yes, so I go against their view and find their characters on warehousing sites. That's because I consider it inane. And you want to know what I do afterwards? I find that creator's web site, bookmark it and check it one or twice a week for updates. I never once will refuse to give him credit for his work, or to provide FEEDBACK. Maybe you've had some bad experiences about kiddies crying when your AI beat their Super Mega Shin Saiya-jin Akuma or something and you decided to generalize that we all whine and biatch about how crappy your work is. To quote you "logic error!" or as I like to put it "epic fail". that or your work really does suck and the kiddies found it better to moan than to provide input on why it sucks. I wouldn't know, I've never seen your work.
Now, on to explaining why I think this entire thing is just an arrogant tantrum. Because of pride. They put together something, regardless of how stolen it is, and all of a sudden "you're the man". Only "the man" decides when he may step down from his golden throne and present us with his gifts of great coding and sprite stitching (Orochi Kyo or some other crap like that...). Well guess, what, it all boils down to, if they're going to be asses about it, then I have nothing more I want to say to them.
Let's work backwards...
I think you lost the point of what you were trying to say halfway through that.
Is your argument that by devaluing the effort put into making these things that somehow less rights are entitled to their authors? Or that its cool to not care what that author thinks because 'they don't care enough about it'? As I said earlier- you don't need to register anything with a copyright office unless you specifically intend to draw financial revenue from the product, or expect contestation of copyright to be an issue. Copyright is established the moment of expression, ie. when the thing is made and released in the first place. Why should authors of MUGEN assets bother investing the time and expense registering when the copyright is theirs from the beginning?
From a legal standpoint, it is a derivative work and is yours. The fact that unlicensed properties were involved in its creation only affect financial gain from the product- not its ownership.
Nobody except self-righteous pigheads claim to make 'art'. Your inference is that if its not art, its not valuable enough to be bound by its authors wishes, correct? That's the selfish, illogical point you're making.
You're missing the point of warehousing as well. Fair enough that the Beatles may not have wanted that for their music. It is still up to them though- they have the right to sell it, give it away for free, license it out or do whatever the hell they want with it. Warehousing categorically denies the creators of MUGEN assets those rights. They do not oblige themselves to necessarily even acknowledge the author, let alone any usage agreements or terms that author may have wished for.
Given Capcom's stance on this, it is all the same as Band X doing a licensed cover of a Beatles song, it finding its way onto an unauthorised Napster-like site with no fees, no DRM... nothing. You'd be saying its art, it belongs to the public and so the site should be able to host it. You'd also be saying its a derivative work and so is not really art or whatever... and that the site is still ok for hosting it. It is just as ridiculous as saying warehousing is ok, the only difference being the obvious financial reparations involved. And that is only a difference in scale- not in affect or morality.
QUOTE (AxL @ Jan 14 2008, 10:16 PM)
I myself plan to start creating MUGEN characters sometime this year. "Creating" is an overstatement since they'll be SNK sprite rips mostly, due ot SNK's sheer awesomeness. At that time, should I create a site and host them there, I will have no problem whatsoever to them being on warehouses. Because, as a creator, I create for the people. I use it as a medium to share my experience. And you know why I will do that? Because I actually thought this through and analyzed it, and I see it as nothing more than a selfish, childish, arrogant tantrum. I would know, I'm one of the most arrogant persons I know. And if they care enough about my work, they'll update their characters when they feel like it.
I think you lost the point of what you were trying to say halfway through that.
QUOTE (AxL)
Morally speaking, since you created it, it's yours. But if you haven't registered it with a copyright office, then I believe you don't care enough about your work. From a legal standpoint, if it's not an original character, it's not yours anyway. All that belongs to you is the bit of coding that went into it.
Is your argument that by devaluing the effort put into making these things that somehow less rights are entitled to their authors? Or that its cool to not care what that author thinks because 'they don't care enough about it'? As I said earlier- you don't need to register anything with a copyright office unless you specifically intend to draw financial revenue from the product, or expect contestation of copyright to be an issue. Copyright is established the moment of expression, ie. when the thing is made and released in the first place. Why should authors of MUGEN assets bother investing the time and expense registering when the copyright is theirs from the beginning?
From a legal standpoint, it is a derivative work and is yours. The fact that unlicensed properties were involved in its creation only affect financial gain from the product- not its ownership.
QUOTE (AxL)
Most creators aren't artists necessarily though.
But people usually just jump on the bandwagon like every person who's posted faq-text on gamefaqs.
But people usually just jump on the bandwagon like every person who's posted faq-text on gamefaqs.
Nobody except self-righteous pigheads claim to make 'art'. Your inference is that if its not art, its not valuable enough to be bound by its authors wishes, correct? That's the selfish, illogical point you're making.
QUOTE (garageink)
well lets put it in music terms.. lets say when the beatles broke up they treated those albums like mugen characters. they'd be gone forever. and there is no way in hell the artists that created that music would want that.
as an artist my self I understand wanting control and credit. but to horde a creation goes against the artistic spirit. something an art teacher told me along time ago is "it only belongs to you until you've created it" meaning once the piece of art is done it really belongs to the world. kind of a hippy statement I know, but I believe it's true.
as an artist my self I understand wanting control and credit. but to horde a creation goes against the artistic spirit. something an art teacher told me along time ago is "it only belongs to you until you've created it" meaning once the piece of art is done it really belongs to the world. kind of a hippy statement I know, but I believe it's true.
You're missing the point of warehousing as well. Fair enough that the Beatles may not have wanted that for their music. It is still up to them though- they have the right to sell it, give it away for free, license it out or do whatever the hell they want with it. Warehousing categorically denies the creators of MUGEN assets those rights. They do not oblige themselves to necessarily even acknowledge the author, let alone any usage agreements or terms that author may have wished for.
Given Capcom's stance on this, it is all the same as Band X doing a licensed cover of a Beatles song, it finding its way onto an unauthorised Napster-like site with no fees, no DRM... nothing. You'd be saying its art, it belongs to the public and so the site should be able to host it. You'd also be saying its a derivative work and so is not really art or whatever... and that the site is still ok for hosting it. It is just as ridiculous as saying warehousing is ok, the only difference being the obvious financial reparations involved. And that is only a difference in scale- not in affect or morality.
How the hell did you reply so fast?
edit: let me answer. you extrapolate too much.
let me also correct the first quoted statement. thanks for pointing it out.
correction: "and you know why I will do that? Because I actually thought this whole "I don't want my characters on any other website other than my own" through and analyzed it, and I see it as nothing more than a selfish, childish, arrogant tantrum." that should clear things up.
"Nobody except self-righteous pigheads claim to make 'art'. Your inference is that if its not art, its not valuable enough to be bound by its authors wishes, correct? That's the selfish, illogical point you're making." don't twist my words around. that's not very nice. Where did I say that they claim to make art? Those 2 comments were stand-alone and you linked them to create a counter-argument. No true artist claims they just made a work of art. You're right, MUGEN developers shouldn't care about any of that, but if they don't, then they shouldn't also care when someone steals their work, reverse-engineers it, and creates derivate works from it, much less when it gets more widespread. Because they didn't bother to copyright it, hence they didn't bother to empower themselves with rights over their own creation.
edit: let me answer. you extrapolate too much.
let me also correct the first quoted statement. thanks for pointing it out.
correction: "and you know why I will do that? Because I actually thought this whole "I don't want my characters on any other website other than my own" through and analyzed it, and I see it as nothing more than a selfish, childish, arrogant tantrum." that should clear things up.
"Nobody except self-righteous pigheads claim to make 'art'. Your inference is that if its not art, its not valuable enough to be bound by its authors wishes, correct? That's the selfish, illogical point you're making." don't twist my words around. that's not very nice. Where did I say that they claim to make art? Those 2 comments were stand-alone and you linked them to create a counter-argument. No true artist claims they just made a work of art. You're right, MUGEN developers shouldn't care about any of that, but if they don't, then they shouldn't also care when someone steals their work, reverse-engineers it, and creates derivate works from it, much less when it gets more widespread. Because they didn't bother to copyright it, hence they didn't bother to empower themselves with rights over their own creation.
You posted half and hour ago.. ? Btw I'm not trying to make any of this sound personal (although I realise it does). I just think the practice really cheats the authors out of their dues. In defending that you're trying to downplay the value of the author's work, which I don't think is cool.
EDIT: Added to the other post- you don't need to register in order to establish copyright.
However, you said '"Creating" is an overstatement' with regard to MUGEN works, which is an equally pejorative way of looking at it as saying it is not art and not worth protecting. And what's wrong with GameFAQs?
EDIT: Added to the other post- you don't need to register in order to establish copyright.
However, you said '"Creating" is an overstatement' with regard to MUGEN works, which is an equally pejorative way of looking at it as saying it is not art and not worth protecting. And what's wrong with GameFAQs?
If that were true, then everything I've ever said on this forum is automatically copyrighted to me by law - which is total crap.
It's only protected in a court of law if I registered it with the copyright office.
It's only protected in a court of law if I registered it with the copyright office.
QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Jan 14 2008, 04:44 AM)
QUOTE (garageink)
wall of text
You're missing the point of warehousing as well. .....
I dunno, I view a warehouse like a roms site or a skins and maps site for a FPS. should I have to go to every individual dumpers site to get a rom. perhaps the warehouses aren't doing all they can. to insure proper credit. that sounds like a mugen community problem. I dunno like I said I don't follow mugen. I can tell you there is a UT skin I created over 7 years ago under an old screen name posted on skincity. Do I care... no. did I give permission.. no. am I kinda flattered that anyone had it in the first place to submit to skincity.. yeah sure.
QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Jan 14 2008, 04:56 AM)
.....I just think the practice really cheats the authors out of their dues. ....
What dues? there is no money or fame in mugen. the creators dues are right there in the readme contained in the zip. hell they could code it into the character file if they are really that hard up for credit. my point is the creator is putting something on the internet and then they get mad its on the internet. how ridiculous is that? first rule of the internet is when you put something on the internet, expect it to spread out of your control. if you don't want it out there then don't release it. simple as that.
QUOTE (Robert @ Jan 14 2008, 11:28 PM)
If that were true, then everything I've ever said on this forum is automatically copyrighted to me by law - which is total crap.
It's only protected in a court of law if I registered it with the copyright office.
It's only protected in a court of law if I registered it with the copyright office.
Wrong. Your full name, a C in brackets and the year is all that is needed to establish formal copyright over anything. Thus, if my name were really Black Knight, writing this...
© Black Knight 2008
...would copyright my expression of ideas in this post.
QUOTE (garageink)
What dues? there is no money or fame in mugen.
Just to be accorded the respect enough to be requested permission to host their work. Nothing more than that. They deserve that much and its not a big ask. Yet somehow warehousing sites decide they 'cannot be flocked'. Apparently when authors' sites go down they mustn't answer their emails either.
QUOTE (garageink @ Jan 14 2008, 11:33 PM)
first rule of the internet is when you put something on the internet, expect it to spread out of your control. if you don't want it out there then don't release it. simple as that.
Well, the MUGEN community's whole problem is people deciding to not release stuff and disappearing...
Funny, I didn't actually post. I had it on quick reply but didn't press the post button. It takes me a long time to answer anyway because I get easily distracted. This post will get edited with a full response once I collect my ideas into one.
edit:
I know you're not trying to make it sound personal, and I enjoy the intelligent discourse and aggressive defense that you put up. I said "creating" is an overstatement. Let me clarify. This pertains, in my view, only to characters, stages etc. that would count as derivate work, i.e. "Orochi Terry", not completely original characters such as Dragon Claw. Since you're basically just gluing some sprites together, how is that "creating"? Creating is when you drawn your own sprites, records your own sounds and generally do something from scratch. Dragon Claw was created, Reu's other characters, Evil Ryu and Evil Ken were sewn together. It's just that simple. Yes I do that they are worth protecting regardless, but at the cost of the author's right to distribution.
Nothing is wrong with GameFAQS per se, I just used it to exemplify the bandwagon I was referring to. Simply put, people copy the idea of "legal stuff" from reading other FAQs. If the first FAQ creators hadn't put this in their FAQs, then I seriously believe that no one would've started doing so on their own. They're just following a trend, it's "cool" to have copyright. You realize this by reading various "legal sections" in each FAQs... And this can be applied to MUGEN developers.
edit:
QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Jan 14 2008, 12:56 PM)
You posted half and hour ago.. ? Btw I'm not trying to make any of this sound personal (although I realise it does). I just think the practice really cheats the authors out of their dues. In defending that you're trying to downplay the value of the author's work, which I don't think is cool.
EDIT: Added to the other post- you don't need to register in order to establish copyright.
However, you said '"Creating" is an overstatement' with regard to MUGEN works, which is an equally pejorative way of looking at it as saying it is not art and not worth protecting. And what's wrong with GameFAQs?
EDIT: Added to the other post- you don't need to register in order to establish copyright.
However, you said '"Creating" is an overstatement' with regard to MUGEN works, which is an equally pejorative way of looking at it as saying it is not art and not worth protecting. And what's wrong with GameFAQs?
I know you're not trying to make it sound personal, and I enjoy the intelligent discourse and aggressive defense that you put up. I said "creating" is an overstatement. Let me clarify. This pertains, in my view, only to characters, stages etc. that would count as derivate work, i.e. "Orochi Terry", not completely original characters such as Dragon Claw. Since you're basically just gluing some sprites together, how is that "creating"? Creating is when you drawn your own sprites, records your own sounds and generally do something from scratch. Dragon Claw was created, Reu's other characters, Evil Ryu and Evil Ken were sewn together. It's just that simple. Yes I do that they are worth protecting regardless, but at the cost of the author's right to distribution.
Nothing is wrong with GameFAQS per se, I just used it to exemplify the bandwagon I was referring to. Simply put, people copy the idea of "legal stuff" from reading other FAQs. If the first FAQ creators hadn't put this in their FAQs, then I seriously believe that no one would've started doing so on their own. They're just following a trend, it's "cool" to have copyright. You realize this by reading various "legal sections" in each FAQs... And this can be applied to MUGEN developers.
I do always get a good chuckle when reading the Legal section of a faq.
this whole thing really bores me, even when the authors have the rights you guys talk about, the way an author talks about their own work always sounds so arrogant, i am not much into it but i guess the guys who make this stuff are mainly teenagers
QUOTE
I have a hard time believing that. every ripped sprite came from an illegal rom. somehow these illegal roms images are transformed into fan art with a sprite ripper and a txt file. O...K....
LMFAO!
Logic Error!
Capcom vs Snk 1 and 2
Neo Geo Battle Colliseum
Marvel vs capcom 2
Melty Blood series
Guilty Gear Series
DragonBall Z Boudokai
Samurai Shodown Tenkachi
Oh man I can go on.
I never knew there were roms for those games? HA!
I despise people that think they know everything and dont know a damn thing from the beginning and yes there are characters made from those sprites.
Seriously, Warehousing is wrong and there will always be creators like myself opposing it. We have reasons and we have the right to protect our materials whether you like it or not.
Simple as that.
Instead of leeching, try to contribute sometimes.
Hey guys 
Just in case you didn't notice yet, here's MFG's position on this whole thing:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=62282.0
...if you look around in the mugen community, it's just a question of time before the "OHNOES CREATOR RIGHTS" fraction dies out. Sooner or later, even the most die-hard creator rights supporter will get tired of telling people what they can and what they can't do with the data they download...
I mean seriously, it doesn't work for all those huge companies who want warez/roms/whatever off the net, why would it work for some pissed off mugen fanboys?
Note that I am not saying that this is all "right" and "just", but those people who think acting as mugen police is worth their time should get a life (or more of it), it's just not worth it. It's a game for god's sake.
Just in case you didn't notice yet, here's MFG's position on this whole thing:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=62282.0
...if you look around in the mugen community, it's just a question of time before the "OHNOES CREATOR RIGHTS" fraction dies out. Sooner or later, even the most die-hard creator rights supporter will get tired of telling people what they can and what they can't do with the data they download...
I mean seriously, it doesn't work for all those huge companies who want warez/roms/whatever off the net, why would it work for some pissed off mugen fanboys?
Note that I am not saying that this is all "right" and "just", but those people who think acting as mugen police is worth their time should get a life (or more of it), it's just not worth it. It's a game for god's sake.
We take the same stance on warez / roms etc. here at 1Emulation as we do on warehousing. Just because sh!t happens out there is no reason to bow down and change our policy and do the wrong thing.
QUOTE (Valodim @ Jan 14 2008, 07:37 PM)
Hey guys
Just in case you didn't notice yet, here's MFG's position on this whole thing:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=62282.0
...if you look around in the mugen community, it's just a question of time before the "OHNOES CREATOR RIGHTS" fraction dies out. Sooner or later, even the most die-hard creator rights supporter will get tired of telling people what they can and what they can't do with the data they download...
I mean seriously, it doesn't work for all those huge companies who want warez/roms/whatever off the net, why would it work for some pissed off mugen fanboys?
Note that I am not saying that this is all "right" and "just", but those people who think acting as mugen police is worth their time should get a life (or more of it), it's just not worth it. It's a game for god's sake.
Just in case you didn't notice yet, here's MFG's position on this whole thing:
http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=62282.0
...if you look around in the mugen community, it's just a question of time before the "OHNOES CREATOR RIGHTS" fraction dies out. Sooner or later, even the most die-hard creator rights supporter will get tired of telling people what they can and what they can't do with the data they download...
I mean seriously, it doesn't work for all those huge companies who want warez/roms/whatever off the net, why would it work for some pissed off mugen fanboys?
Note that I am not saying that this is all "right" and "just", but those people who think acting as mugen police is worth their time should get a life (or more of it), it's just not worth it. It's a game for god's sake.
QUOTE (BlackKnight @ Jan 14 2008, 07:43 PM)
We take the same stance on warez / roms etc. here at 1Emulation as we do on warehousing. Just because sh!t happens out there is no reason to bow down and change our policy and do the wrong thing.
Thanks for posting Valodim.
We're also affiliates with Mugen Fighters Guild and once their rules allow warehousing, we will as well. Otherwise, their rules stand here on 1Emulation.
Excellent post Valodim, it is even more permissive than my ideas, but I have no problem with that.
Sounds good to me.
The last thing I want to see is forums acting as if they are extensions of the police force, or of corporate policy. Leave policing to the police.
QUOTE
Links to so-called "warehouses" are now, at least from our side, fully tolerated, and there might soon even emerge a number of new sites which aim to host as many creations as possible, which you can enjoy to the fullest without anyone judging you--grasp as many characters and stages as you can, if that is your cup of tea.
Sounds good to me.
The last thing I want to see is forums acting as if they are extensions of the police force, or of corporate policy. Leave policing to the police.
excellent post Valodin and great MUGEN site for what I remember, in the end everyone will see thar warehousing is not sth negative but the opposite and that people are making a lot of fuss for sth it is not worth it.
QUOTE (-SyN- @ Jan 14 2008, 10:15 PM)
QUOTE
I have a hard time believing that. every ripped sprite came from an illegal rom. somehow these illegal roms images are transformed into fan art with a sprite ripper and a txt file. O...K....
LMFAO!
Logic Error!
Capcom vs Snk 1 and 2
Neo Geo Battle Colliseum
Marvel vs capcom 2
Melty Blood series
Guilty Gear Series
DragonBall Z Boudokai
Samurai Shodown Tenkachi
Oh man I can go on.
I never knew there were roms for those games? HA!
I despise people that think they know everything and dont know a damn thing from the beginning and yes there are characters made from those sprites.
Seriously, Warehousing is wrong and there will always be creators like myself opposing it. We have reasons and we have the right to protect our materials whether you like it or not.
Simple as that.
Instead of leeching, try to contribute sometimes.
*cough* pirated copies *cough* your reply wasn't even argument-worthy... especially after knowing full-well inky does not dabble AT ALL in MUGEN.
epic fail.
QUOTE
Thanks for posting Valodim.
We're also affiliates with Mugen Fighters Guild and once their rules allow warehousing, we will as well. Otherwise, their rules stand here on 1Emulation. smile.gif
We're also affiliates with Mugen Fighters Guild and once their rules allow warehousing, we will as well. Otherwise, their rules stand here on 1Emulation. smile.gif
If you would've taken the time to read Valodim's link, you would've seen that they now allow warehousing. Guess it's time to change the rules, buddy boy.
lol @ Epic Fail.
Be original.
As far as Valodim's statement, That don't concern me. That site went to hell afterwards anyway.
So I guess this means 1emulation is now a warehouse as well.
Oh well,
As long I don't see my stuff here without my consent, I don't care. I can't speak for others btw.
Do what you will.
Be original.
As far as Valodim's statement, That don't concern me. That site went to hell afterwards anyway.
So I guess this means 1emulation is now a warehouse as well.
Oh well,
As long I don't see my stuff here without my consent, I don't care. I can't speak for others btw.
Do what you will.
Erhmm.... I've been "failing" a lot lately. I guess my head ain't screwed on right.
Nevertheless, I need some time to talk about this with the staff if that is the case.
Nevertheless, I need some time to talk about this with the staff if that is the case.
QUOTE (-SyN- @ Jan 15 2008, 06:50 PM)
lol @ Epic Fail.
Be original.
As far as Valodim's statement, That don't concern me. That site went to hell afterwards anyway.
So I guess this means 1emulation is now a warehouse as well.
Oh well,
As long I don't see my stuff here without my consent, I don't care. I can't speak for others btw.
Do what you will.
Be original.
As far as Valodim's statement, That don't concern me. That site went to hell afterwards anyway.
So I guess this means 1emulation is now a warehouse as well.
Oh well,
As long I don't see my stuff here without my consent, I don't care. I can't speak for others btw.
Do what you will.
I think I'd speak for everyone then, when I said "Keep your $hit off our internet then". Nuff said.
If you don't want the public having it, keep it to your f**king self and don't even speak about it.
These so called MUGEN creators that rip off the artwork of commercial games etc, piss me off........you are apparantly one of them.
This code of ethics within a community that 9 out of 10 times STEALS and claims as their own disgusts me. How can you tell others not to distribute your work when 1: It's not yours, you ripped sprites (9/10 times) 2: You let it escape from your very own hard drive.
This part of the MUGEN community needs to die. The elitest attitude of man involved is so god damn childish it's not funny...........though I don't find this surprising of fighting game fans who treat fighting games like it's life or death that you learn a bunch of button combinations and think you're talented.
QUOTE
lol @ Epic Fail.
Be original.
Be original.
And there goes your last argument, collapsing upon itself like it actually had any relevance to the topic. I enjoy using "epic fail" it suits the situation and your views, which were explained quite nicely and accurately by Cinder.
Today is a victory for the MUGEN community. Rejoice.
QUOTE (AxL @ Jan 15 2008, 06:00 PM)
QUOTE
lol @ Epic Fail.
Be original.
Be original.
And there goes your last argument, collapsing upon itself like it actually had any relevance to the topic. I enjoy using "epic fail" it suits the situation and your views, which were explained quite nicely and accurately by Cinder.
Today is a victory for the MUGEN community. Rejoice.
Alright, hold your horses. We're still in the process of thinking this out and making sure if we want to allow "warehousing" or not.
Simply put, the Rule of thumb. Internet = Public. You love MUGEN? Make your private sutff. Go ahead by all means. Want to show it off? Post screenies and Vids. But, AS SOON AS YOU UPLOAD, ITS ALL OURS. Fighting it is a waste. Get a job at the RIAA if you want to fight things like that.
QUOTE (GameCop @ Jan 16 2008, 03:09 AM)
QUOTE (AxL @ Jan 15 2008, 06:00 PM)
QUOTE
lol @ Epic Fail.
Be original.
Be original.
And there goes your last argument, collapsing upon itself like it actually had any relevance to the topic. I enjoy using "epic fail" it suits the situation and your views, which were explained quite nicely and accurately by Cinder.
Today is a victory for the MUGEN community. Rejoice.
Alright, hold your horses. We're still in the process of thinking this out and making sure if we want to allow "warehousing" or not.
Take your time, last thing we want is a hasty decision. Just because some site decided to allow them doesn't mean we should follow suit based on that. However, my view still stands, MFG's decision is what's best for the entire MUGEN community. And while the poll isn't nearly that accurate a barometer, the votes clearly show that the users of this site think so too.
Of course, on the flip side, if most users would also prefer we resume linking to roms and warez, that doesn't mean it would be right for the 1emu community as a whole. This is not the case however, for this particular niche of our community.
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